I think stupid is as stupid does.  Fronting in the burbs and fronting in the hood at the end of the day is stil fronting.  

I don't disagree that materialism is as American as apple pie but you know the idea that African Americans are some how marginalized from the larger society is an internal myth.  To the rest of the world AA are most representative of the American experience more than any other group.  

Consider the known history is nearluy all in America, they have been here since the nation was first settled and they have been players in every major development in this nation's history.  Blacks in America have sometimes been called the "canary in the mine" of American society.  

So whether its success of Oprah or the riches to rag of MC Hammer its there for all to see and hopefully to learn.  

I, too, read that article Jimi, and I'm glad someone brought it into the town hall for discussion. But I didn't get the same moral from the story that you did. Rather than the Poor Elite wanting to show that they can spend as frivolously as yt folk, I think the main point of the article was this:

>> Conspicuous consumption, this research suggests, is not an unambiguous signal of personal affluence. It’s a sign of belonging to a relatively poor group. VISIBLE LUXURY THUS SERVES LESS TO ESTABLISH THE OWNER'S POSITIVE STATUS AS AFFLUENT THAN TO FEND OFF THE NEGATIVE PERCEPTION THAT THE OWNER IS POOR. The richer a society or peer group, the less important visible spending becomes.

Apparently, "we" are still too concerned with what others think of us, as a group.

I think this whole article is simply a reminder that many black people, like a majority of ALL PEOPLE, don't spend enough time developing their natural god-given talents and intellect, don't have or pursue hobbies, and don't spend much time doing anything altruistic for anyone for anyone other than perhaps close family members. Why do I say this? Because if they did, they wouldn't have the time or patience or interest in trying to impress total strangers with their vapid displays of crass consumerism.

Hey poor people, guess what? If you have a bunch of people's names or monograms on your clothing, or you were a bunch of jewelry, the message you are sending to people with taste and sense is: I'M NOT ONLY POOR, BUT I HAVE POOR TASTE.

Many of us 'Mericans have yet to grasp that our overconsumption and excess contributes to suffering around the world.  How many realize the suffering that goes into digging the bling out of the earth (Blood Diamonds and Gold)?  How many of us throw away stuff because it is out of style?

Sustainability and green living shouldn't be just the realm of liberal Anglos.  We all need to live more simply so OTHERS can simply live...

Please take the time to read Jimi's blog on Evin Cosby.  It's very good.  In regards to this blog, I think rich people don't have anything to prove and don't have to worry about impressing anyone. I remember hearing on a radio news show that poor people spend more on funerals.  The rich are more likely to cremate.    

"the harder you flash, the harder you get flashed on"-mos def

No matter how much material possessions we display, Whites will always think it was acquired in some nefarious or ill-gotten way.  So who and why are we so struck on impressing?

So...Evin doesn't get down with the "poor elite"...just peddles *** like high heel shoes for toddlers and little girls, to the "poor elite"...*** I'm sure she wouldn't purchase for her own child...or maybe Evin is more ghetto than I think...

I think a lot of things.   But quickly:

I think the Atlantic article was telling.   I also think the wealthy's idea of frivolous is not the same for the average American's, or the poor elite's for that matter,  so the two are not one in the same and hardly comparable.

It just shows how the rich get richer and the poor can't get ahead.  There are things we can do to hold on to wealth that the rich already know, but the working class don't.  Look at pop stars or athlete who come from poor backgrounds and loose all their money within a few years of making millions.  Coming from a working class background, I get it.  Spend it today because you may not have any tomorrow.  Well, that is a sure way NOT to have more tomorrow. That mindset holds us back.  We have to ascribe to middle class values to become middle class.  When we choose to value savings, when we choose to invest wisely, and when we decide to put money into home improvements in order to grow our investment rather than buy a new car, or we buy more school supplies than expensive flashy shoes - we hold on to and grow our potential.  We have to value our future and how we see ourselves more than we value what rich/powerful people think of us.  The American Dream isn't about conspicious consumption, it is about freedom, and finacial freedom is a huge part of that.  When we hand our finacial power over to Mastercard, we are not free. That is true for black and white.  

As for Evin Cosby's comment -- "No one should be judging and assuming that because I’m black, I have to speak in that hip-hop way. That’s something I prefer not to do” -- I agree.

But who would be expecting her to speak "in that hip-hop" way? What does that even mean, btw?

And Ms. Cosby . . . you may not share a similar dialect with those black people, but you appear to share their same poor eating habits and aversion to regular exercise. And no matter how much money you were raised with, or what schools you attended, or how perfectly you enunciate the King's English, you will never be considered by anyone non-black as anything other than a typical [ly overweight] black woman.

Get off your high horse, Ms. Cosby. And onto an exercise bike.

When the $#*t hits the fan, and make no mistake: it WILL hit the fan, all the paper money in America won't get the goods necessary for survival that a platinum grill will buy. It is true that, for now, spending on jewelry looks silly, but there's one thing about it that cannot be said for inside the box assets: it is portable and will always be liquid.

dr spaceman

Amen.

reinadelaz:

I used to sell jewelry for major chain stores for almost 10 years. And the industry standards for mark-up was "6 Key." That meant that whatever the store paid for the jewelry, they multiplied that by 6, and that is the price that went on the price tag. So a $99 tennis bracelet, for instance, was automatically priced at $599.00. Even with a once- or twice-a-year, blowout 50% off sale... the jewelry was still marked up 300%. And this was 15 or 20 years ago. And that was RETAIL PRICING.

Once you tried to sell that jewelry again after it left the store? Forget about it.

The only real jewelry investment is loose, precious stones (diamonds, emaralds, and rubies) OF A CERTAIN SIZE AND QUALITY.

If you think your nasty mouth metal is an investment, you are seriously misinformed.

I agree with your argument.  I’d also like to add that in our community materialism is sometimes all we have to hold on to for self-esteem.  This is unfortunate because it appears the lower the self esteem, the bigger the bling-bling.  I’m deeply saddened to hear of Ms. Cosby’s views.  It seems that with all of the Jell-o her dad sold to provide her the best education money could by, he couldn’t help her have a soul or even a heart for that matter.  It’s one thing to be born into privilege but quite another to be proud of your ignorance.

You said: "the civil rights movement was about the right to be treated as equals, YES, but it was also about the access to consumables and artifacts that would signal affluence and status to the wider world."

Why don’t you do some more reading before you write gibberish like this?  Anyone with intellect would know that the african american rights movement was not a quest to satisfy materialist desires, far from it.  It was a fight by black americans to gain full citizenship rights in the USA.  They lived as exiles in their homeland without human rights.  How dare you equate their noble struggle with materialist adulation!  What a shame that the WashingtonPost would debase the civil rights movement by equating it with a desire for materialism.

You said: “Hip-hop culture has always been about marginalized (Afro-black and Latino) peoples acquiring the Dream from the fringe, using conventional and non-conventional means”

What is hip-hop culture?  and what do you mean by "non-conventional means"... sounds like a euphemism for crime to me.... are you talking about Rap music?  Not everyone that raps is black, latino or poor.  And the majority of people that consume hip-hop music are certainly none of these.

You said: ‘White people look at rappers showing off their (rented) houses, cars and jewelry on MTV Cribs and ask “why?” Young black kids, who only know poverty, but know that anything can happen in America, ask “why not?” ‘

It’s not just white people that look at these dimwitted hoodlums and ask “why”... oh and just in case nobody’s told you yet “young black kid” is not synonymous with “poverty”.

The only thing these poor people deluded by materialism are showing is how well exploitive capitalism works. No financial decision they make is based on reason but is a consequence of successful advertising.

>>Apparently, "we" are still too concerned with what others think of us, as a group.<<<

the funk doctor spock is right...

How is it that Evin Cosby could have attended prep schools, high price colleges, socialize with the rich and famous, and avoid the poor elite but still have the body of someone whose daily diet consists of Old Milwaukee beer, government cheese, hog mawls, chitterlings, rice and overcooked beans flavored with fatback and whose exercise routine is the flipping the remote from Maury to Rachel Ray.

I think this article has a lot of valid points. I do think that it is not just a black thing. I think anyone under the age of 40 runs the risk of being subjected to this thinking if they were poor or have struggled to live up to that point. Black or white, we want others to think we are doing alright. Black or white, when we get wealth all of a sudden, if we never had anything, we go crazy. No matter your color, if you were not taught right as a child, were poor or otherwise oppressed, you want to live for a while. I am the mother of 3 grown children.I am white. We were so poor when my kids were young. We tried to teach savings, working and all of that. Now 2 of my children are extreme savers. Both have also acquired success in there financial lives at one point. Both saved some and both spent the crap out of a lot to keep up with the Joneses. My youngest has a great work ethic but spends every dime she gets. Got to have the latest. After going overboard and almost failing the oldest two have figured it out.

The point is if you aren't taught any type of financial strategy as a child, where do you learn how to do it from? I think the Poor Elite if you are going to stick them in a black category, are just young and untrained. They did what it took to make it. They feel like they should get what they want. Good for them. Black people are growing and learning and are going to find their way. They have to go through this to get to the smarter side.

I have 3 mixed grandchildren. My biggest speech to my girls is teach them to handle their money. Handle your money right and they will know. The dads who are non existent didn't know how to handle money and spent, spent, spent  http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/920793/where_are_the_daddys.html?cat=25

This is not a black issue. This is an American issue. Older men and women stand up and say it. Offer to help. The schools are full of kids who don't know anything. Where are the programs to help? Education makes more level headed children at some point in their lives.

I think its important to note that this is not an inherently black problem, it tends to be more apparent in the black community due to lack of education rather than any other factor. To respond to the implication that rich people don’t feel a need top floss, this is of course simply not true, the flossing is a little subtle but is all the same flossing e.g. there is not need to wear excessive jewelry when you live in a multi million dollar house, you zip code of Corse say it all. All people have the need to be acknowledged and respected. If any individual lived in a vacuum...say a one man island then he would not at all be bothered about material things but that’s a human trait not a black trait.

Most people are obsessed with instant gratification.  Once the hip-hop nation learns the concept of wealth instead of luxury, there will be a rebirth in that community.  These things take time... remember the Civil Rights act was less than 45 years ago.  So basically within 2 generations when have gone from the back of the bus to the democratic nominee....  

Saving for what you want is a foreign concept for many Americans but there's nothing like a recession and $4.00 gas to wake up the masses.

@khoikhoi: I love the fact that you cite Jimi’s explanation of hip hop culture being about triumph over external obstacles then , in your next statement…. “What is hip hop culture?”

If you still don’t understand hip hop culture it is the pure expression of American culture…   Take all of your typical talking points… pro-gun, wealth by any means, individualism over the masses, misogyny (against pro-choice) and corruption… etc.  Then consider the alternative values… anti-violence, knowledge of self, unity, feminism, social uplift and justice.  The home of the free summed up in 16 bars, a mic, graffiti, back-ground dancers and 2 turn tables.  Not what you see on MTV and BET.

The Poor Elite. Broke people who front rich. Is that like the guy who lives in his mama's basement rent free, but drives an expensive foreign car? I know all y'all know somebody like that. Air Jordan's on a six-month old. We as Black folks talk a good game when it comes to money, but the reality is, we really have no clue. And from the looks of things, we don't want to. What we think of as "having money" is chump change compared to what really is HAVING MONEY. The whole concept of NET WORTH escapes us. Net worth to brothers is how many style points he got on that last dunk. Harry Winston and Jacob the Jeweler see us coming a mile away, because we have not been educated as to value over apperarance. For Black folks, it's all about the show, style over substance. Until we recognize the true worth of everything, especially our own human lives, we will continue down this path of least resistance, you know, if you get good grades, you're "acting white". But I'm not giving 'ole girl' Evin Cosby a free pass. I'm wondering why Mr. C himself didn't check that ass for those comments. I know we are entitled to our own opinion, but girl, take your foot out of your mouth and engage brain before speaking.