The Root | TheRoot.com
Skip Navigation
Cancel

Jimi Izrael

Full Post
Posted Monday, June 23, 2008 8:05 PM

Ice T vs. Soulja Boy: The War for Rap Music's Relevancy

izraelj

Rapper/Actor Ice T is engaged in a heady YouTube debate with Soulja Boy, who penned the infectious “Crank That” and had America doing the Soulja Boy step. There always seems to be a chasm between generations in hip-hop: youthful misunderstanding and mis-direction of the legacy versus old–school cats aching for a return to relevancy and substance.  I’ve fought that fight myself.  I don’t know that  Ice T is the poster boy for the cause of rap relevancy—there’s no denying he’s an OG in the game and he elevated the discourse, but not by much. He should leave Soulja Boy alone.

 

Back when he was rocking spiked gloves, skinny jeans, elf boots and a thirsty perm in Breakin,’ he was rapping about what everyone else was rapping about—the Dj. He was like a lot of rappers trying to cash in on the co-opting of hip-hop by the mainstream.—that’s not a knock, that’s just the truth.  As the times changed, his narrative changed just like everyone else’s did, and he started rapping about the reality of hustling to survive. Ice T wasn’t spitting gangster rap so much as street knowledge: Ice laid the laws of the street out for people that didn’t know, and made a niche for himself. His gangster credentials are shakey at best (affiliation isn’t membership), but his ghetto pass is certified. Ice T’s appeal peaked with Power, simply an incredible record from start to finish, even today. It’s real talk, from the first cut to the last. Ghetto politics, on a higher level. But it came out in the middle of rap music’s Black Nationalist phase, when record companies thought it was sexy to market roots and radics to white college kids. He’s put out more records, but none have really hit. Ice T was just relevant enough back in the day and has a solid body of work of no one can touch.

 

Soulja Boy made a song with only a slightly veiled reference to squirting girls with male ejaculant for fun. And  it’s the kind of party record people will be dancing to 15 years from now and still have no idea what it’s actually about. He’s had other hits, but none like “Crack.” With no samples and low-cost production quality, Soulja Boy is likely to be eating of rap music for a long time. Soulja is a product of a new, semi-disposable hip-hop aesthetic where cross-over appeal is not only desired but encouraged, and the art in the song is only as valuable as its hook and chart position. No one cares about skills anymore—certainly not the white people who buy most rap music. It now just serves as a diversion, (real or imagined) Coon Tales from Across the Tracks, something that can be packaged, diluted and resold to the masses as a ringtone. When times change, rap music changes, and Soulja Boy is at least as relevant as anything else on the radio.

 

Neither Ice or Soulja is rapping about getting out the vote, the grinding economy or our foreign policy, or even have a hit on the radio for that matter. That makes the back and forth kinda farcical and pointless, even if the subtext is interesting. Ice T doesn’t think that “happy rap” is real rap. I think crunk, hyphy, whisper, techtonik, hip-house-- it’s all an encouraging sign of evolution and change.

 

I’ll give you that switching from songs about shooting bullets and dice to songs about shooting sperm is kind of a net wash, but I don’t know that either style offers much back to the art-form than the other. Does pop rap dilute the art? Probably. But until Ice T is ready to do a cover of “The White Man Got A God Complex,” or step the game up measurably, he should fall back and let Soulja Boy make his mail.

You must be a registered user to comment.  Click here to register.  Already a user?  Click here to login.

Member Comments

Posted By: Bed-Stuy White Boy (June 23, 2008 at 12:43 PM)

Poor Ice T.

I guess since he's not satisfied with his current acting gig that he now finds it imperative to start an online beef with someone of lesser talent. This is kind of sad, actually. If Ice T were as solid as he thinks he is, he wouldn't concern himself with Top 40 pap; which is basically what Souljah Boy's music is anyway.

I also find it ridiculous that someone of Ice T's stature would even consider arguing for relevancy in today's Godless musical climate. In his prime, he needed album sales, steady touring, and plenty of promotion to stay relevant. Today, he appears as someone who has never heard of the internet, myspace, ringtones, and pro tools. All of these are factors that have contributed to Soujah Boy's success. They are also factors that didn't even exist back in 87'

The times have changed and we are in an age where just about any jack*ss can get famous on his/her own. Instead of fighting for a spotlight that has passed him by long ago, Ice T should instead turn his back on the same music industry he once ruled, but has since devolved in a soulless wasteland.

....and this coming from someone who bought "Home Invasion" 14 years ago.


Posted By: miss lauren (June 23, 2008 at 1:49 PM)

Jimi, I hate bouncy tunes for the sake of bounciness. you don't give white hip-hop fans a chance, we aren't all teeny boppers, a lot of us crave social relevance in all the music we listen too. we want to hear about the issues. but hey, i know the dance so i'm as much at fault for the problem i decry as my little sister who i pray doesnt know what "superman that ho" means. i guess its the drums in the song. i don't like duttywine, but i love the little trill thats in it, forget the lyrics, listen closesly to the music and there is a loop in there that is beautiful in its simplicity.


Posted By: ginsu (June 23, 2008 at 2:51 PM)

hip hop evolved out of funk music.(CORRECTION: rap music evolved out of dancehall music... corrected not to put dude on blast, but so as not to mis-educate people..--j.i.)  if youre writing dance music lyrics, a simple flow can be very effective at moving buts.  but when you rap slow (for better or worse) people can actually understand whats being said.  

its easy to hate on rappers for having weak lyrics.   but if you look at lyrics of some of the best rappers out there - some are just filling syllables.  

AND

not all artists have the same gift.  one artist might be a talanted story rapper.  another a charismatic party mover.  another might be amazing at writing politcal lyrics.  or freestyling or battling.  its rare for a musician (let alone a rapper)  to be a great political lyricist and party mover.  


Posted By: ginsu (June 23, 2008 at 5:03 PM)

thats cool.  sorry to miseducate.  im a music head. not a music educator.  i listen to everything and its fun tracing conversations between various styles and genres.  

was it herc that brought sound system culture to the bronx?  cant remember.

if youre going to trace political hip hop to jamaican dancehall soundsystems then why not trace it back further to calypsonians (who were awesome political rappers and freestylers) and then back to griots .  Wiki: "Although they are popularly known as 'praise singers', griots may also use their vocal expertise for gossip, satire, or political comment."

its sad watching Ice T in breakin.  they obviously dubbed in the music afterwards - hes completely off beat.


Posted By: Yammer (June 23, 2008 at 7:42 PM)

Relevancy and substance: these are good but not essential ingredients in pop music.  (I had accidentally typed "pop mucus" which is appropriate for the subject at, er, hand.)   As with our favourite writers and friends, some people say profound things and others are appreciated because they are funny.

Ice T of all people should appreciate this, given his awesomely crude ditty "Evil ***" from Body Count.  


Posted By: MisterWyatt (June 23, 2008 at 9:11 PM)

This has got to be one of the funnier debates I have seen in sometime.  Ice-T has created a nice acting career for himself that I contend is based on the force of his personality rather than his rap career, which, outside of "Hustler" off the New Jack City soundtrack and "Cop Killer" which I'm generously crediting to his rap catalogue, has meant very little.  Soulja Boy had a club hit which is not hard these days because that seems to be all the urban music division in record labels want to find.  Soulja Boy is a hit-maker.  Soulja Boy is not an artist in the truest sense of the word.  He is not offering anything that mean anything beyond tonight at the club and that might be cool.  To me Soulja Boy is more irrelevant than Ice-T.  At least Hustler and Cop Killer had a social meaning behind them.  The stunning thing to me in the debate is not even the grounds of musical relevance.  To me the upsetting thing is the total lack of respect from elder to youth and in return youth to elder that we heard in the exchange between Ice and Soulja Boy.  Debate is a healthy an necessary occurrance in any democracy, but the way a debate is waged will indicate its effectiveness.  


Posted By: rjgarrick (June 23, 2008 at 10:51 PM)

The eternal friction between tradion and innovation in music crosses all styles and genres.  The goal as an artist is to haul enough up from the well to give it structure and flavor, and to add as much of yourself as you can seeking relevance.  For the entertainer, the bar is much lower.


Posted By: ginsu (June 24, 2008 at 7:43 PM)

its vanity to dismiss soljah boy as an artist becasue he does not fulfill your philosophical definition of an artist.  all musicians and artists just want to do their art and get paid.  both ice t and soljah boy are doing the same thing.  you can takes sides depending on your taste.

ice t attacking soljah boy is a cheap gimmick to get attention & cred. reminds me of the attacks on mc hammer.  or when KRS1 attacked PM Dawn on stage.  i would have more respect if ice t attacked 50cent or another toughguy MC.


Posted By: hockeyrules (June 25, 2008 at 10:26 AM)

I have to ask, "Where's the beef?!"  These so called "artists" are here today, gone tomorrow.  So make your money, enjoy your fifteen minutes of fame and get over yourselves!  Hopefully, your music will last long enough to gain you royalties to supplement your social security, if that is still around!


Posted By: arush85 (June 26, 2008 at 10:03 AM)

I'm by no means a Souljah Boy fan. But, did any of you have the #1 ringtone in America, with people of all colors dancing to your original beat, song and dance coordination? NO!!!

I'm by no means an Ice-T  hata. But who is this guy who makes ORIGINAL GANGSTA, while at the same time writing "Treat Your Mother Right" (performed by Mr. T) AND starring in 90% of acting roles as a COP!!!

I respect both of these dudes as important parts in the game, but none of them get any play on my iPhone.


Posted By: Big Jay (June 26, 2008 at 6:44 PM)

"No one cares about skills anymore—certainly not the white people who buy most rap music. "

Ok, that's completely untrue,at least where I'm from.  The people I hear bumpin' rap songs on their cell phones most often is black people.  I'm not going to lie, I've heard "Lollipop" on a couple white people's phones (I work in a Speedway gas station that's busy like all the time, so I hear a lot of phones ringing, and I do pay attention to the ringtones, because I'm a music head).  

The deepest debates about lyrical content I've gotten into have been with white people.  All of my white friends  that actually listen to rap music pay attention to the rapper's skills, not just whether it works with the beat or not.  

You don't need to point the "You're killing hip-hop" finger at white people.  Point it at ANYONE who encourages rappers to ONLY make good hooks 'cause it makes for a good ringtone.  Point it at ANYONE who doesn't care about skills.  Point it at record companies who are photocopying the same song just to make money.  Point it at the people who are too stupid to realize that most of these songs are the SAME thing over and over again.


Posted By: ginsu (June 26, 2008 at 8:27 PM)

writing hooks is a skill.  a pop mc could have evil skills but keep it simple to get over.


Posted By: Abriel (June 27, 2008 at 12:55 AM)

K-oS rules hip hop....pure talent

....Ice-T wants a come back but he isn't an original artist he is a *flattering artist which is also good but this time round he needs to exit.

*flattering artists usually mimic the trend of the moment and thats cool too, many great one hit wonders or great albums were created in this manner.


Posted By: Abriel (June 27, 2008 at 1:19 AM)

K-oS rules hip hop....pure talent

....Ice-T wants a come back but he isn't an original artist he is a *flattering artist which is also good but this time round he needs to exit.

*flattering artists usually mimic the trend of the moment and thats cool too, many great one hit wonders or great albums were created in this manner.


Posted By: jmatlock (June 27, 2008 at 1:23 PM)

First off, Soldier Boy is just WACK!  Yeah I yelled it.  But secondly, ask yourself this question; in 20 years would anyone even think about nominating Soldier Boy for Hip Hop Honors?  If the answer is yes, then maybe I need to stick to listening to Hip Hop made before the millenium.  If the answer is no, then stop hating on Ice-T.  Ice-T has earned the right to criticize the young bucks, even if he's wrong.  Ya'll still watch NBA on TNT's Charles Barkley, and last I checked, he's still looking for a ring, but he's a definate Hall of Famer, just like Ice-T.  Respect your elders, respect your Hip Hop culture!  Ice-T might have been co-opting the rhymes of the times, but he was creative enough to stand out from the pack.  Soldier Boy, get ready fo a Home Invasion!


PingBack from http://ice-t.affurls.com/ice-t-vs-soulja-boy-the-war-for-rap-musics-relevancy/


PingBack from http://ice-t.affurls.com/ice-t-vs-soulja-boy-the-war-for-rap-musics-relevancy-2/


PingBack from http://ice-t.affurls.com/ice-t-vs-soulja-boy-the-war-for-rap-musics-relevancy-3/


Posted By: anopheles (July 17, 2008 at 4:52 PM)

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"

The game is hip-hop/rap, and Soulja Boy is doing nothing different than Ice T did when he was coming up, which was getting your rap game on and get paid. It's just that times and audience preferences have changed. I have tremendous respect for Ice T, since he was the artist that introduced me to my favorite genre, and he has some of the best skills that came out of the 80's, and although I don't think Soulja Boy will go down in the history books for talent, you can't hate on him for creating one of the silliest, but most infectious songs and dances of this rap generation (I still have to catch myself from doing the dance in public if I hear it). Soulja is just riding the trend and making his money off of it, and can't fault him for that.

That being said, I don't know why Ice T cares? He's still highly regarded as one of the "fathers" so to speak of rap, and from all publicly known he wasn't a fool and waste his earnings, so why would he even care anymore? I don't get it.  Just my 2 cents....


PingBack from http://ice-t.affurls.com/ice-t-vs-soulja-boy-the-war-for-rap-musics-relevancy-4/


Posted By: MerBear (July 24, 2008 at 2:33 PM)

I just think that line "super-soak that ho!" is so funny!  And I'm a white legal secretary...  It makes me giggle just thinking about it and yet it's so misogynistic.  c'est la vie.   ps, I wonder if Ellen Degeneres knew about that line (which is often dubbed out) when she had Soulja Boy on her show?  lololololol


Posted By: ice t vs soulja boy (August 2, 2008 at 11:03 AM)

PingBack from http://allison.freevideonewsradio.info/icetvssouljaboy.html


Posted By: itashimashite (August 15, 2008 at 1:10 AM)

I'ma say this. I still love walking on the streets of New York listening to "New Jack Hustler." Why? It's a classic.

I hate Soulja Boy. Maybe not hate, but as a 28 yr old female, I'm not really feelin it. I gave up doing dances like that when the"Percalator" came out.

That being said: Ice - T, stop hatin! Why pick a fight with a 17 year old? Was being on Flava Flav's roast a window into your future that you were a little uncomfy with? There's gotta be a better way to deal with your insecurity as a OG in a game that you can't play anymore than come out swinging against a young brother who's just trying to do what you did over 20 years ago. Your problem with the music might be a valid one, but you came on his territory and tried to muscle him - not smart. He owns the YouTubes.