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Jimi Izrael

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Posted Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:44 PM

Fixing the Flaws of our Fathers

izraelj

Sen. Barack Obama totes the Cosby line of reasoning about fatherhood: by directing his recent message about absentee fathers towards black men, he props up the notion that we are somehow genetically predisposed to run from our paternal responsibility. It always strikes me funny that we don’t ask both parties to be a more responsible, that we insist on demonizing the men involved, instead of holding the woman accountable for not being on birth control  while having sex with a man she’s pretty sure isn’t husband material. Putting the onus on black men to be better fathers is sexy, but it isn't fair.

 

Thanks to Oprah Winfrey and the bass-ackwards ranting of others, it’s OK—maybe preferable—for women to have (multiple) children without the benefit of marriage or even a strong “kicking’ it”—type of understanding. Forget the good of the child: women need to learn to be “self-sufficient,” you see.  Black men and women are at war as women embrace a notion of “independence” that seems to extol the virtue of single motherhood and getting paid, but rejects the building of nuclear families. Women need men for sperm and taking out the garbage, but little else. Small wonder we can’t keep our families together. There are plenty of women who want babies, but don’t necessarily want a man around, and this scenario is becoming more common than you think.

 

There is a flaw in the wisdom that suggests that black men run from responsibility—who are these men? Do they just surface to fill out polling questionaires  and then head back on the lam? In my circle of friends, all the men who are fathers? Have had to FIGHT to stay in their child’s lives, including me. Every single dad I know. And my friends aren’t crackheads and hobos: I’m talking about professional, educated men, holding down good jobs. Church-goers.  Average Moes. Good Guys™. Some have residential custody, all want it. There are alot of fathers out there trying to wrassle our kids from the clutches of women who may or may not have birthed these kids for the right reason. That sounds ugly to say out loud, but that's Square Biz. We are part of a generation of hip-hop dads struggling against media perceptions, the court system and accepted wisdom to be fathers to our children. You don’t read about us much. It’s easy to presume black men to be defective fathers, but the answer isn’t quite as simple as that. We have to stop pointing the stink finger at black men for the demise of the black family, because last I checked, it takes two to tango. Mommy actually has to want Daddy to hang out.

 

I understand Obama’s pain, because my Dad(s) opted out. But B-Rock took an “L” on this one, at least on my scorecard. His Cosby Anthropology doesn’t work for me. What Obama and Cosby can’t know  is that seeing a whole generation of Dads agitate the gravel gave the hip-hop generation more resolve to be better men than our father’s were.

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Member Comments

Posted By: Klaymore (June 18, 2008 at 8:15 AM)

Nicely said.  The Root and American Thinker agree!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/the_problem_with_obamas_father.html


Posted By: naturallyalise (June 18, 2008 at 10:39 AM)

Do you ever wonder what devloped that sense of "independence"? How about the vicious cycle of each generation having a weak or non-existent father figure, a lot of women have no reason to trust or depend on a man because of it.  Very few women come out unscathed from the fatherless dynamic.  


Posted By: claritycantwait (June 18, 2008 at 11:05 AM)

I don't know if the issue is it's okay for women to have multiple children through one-night stands or other noncommitted sexual relationships.  That's a moral/religious/sociological question that I won't touch.  And yes perhaps she should be on birth control but any man having sex these days should probably be carrying around his own protection anyway.  

But I think how much blame to put on women for having these children misses the point. The bigger question is what happens when said child arrives?  Yes, we can all cite to a Tony or a Sean that we know that wants to be more involved in his child(ren)'s lives but the mom is acting up.  But we also know a Darryl and a Bobby and a Jason who have to be damn near stalked.

Barack's message wasn't directed at Tony and Sean, and wasn't meant to argue that any man who doesn't have joint custody is slipping and avoiding his duties.  The message was directed particularly at the Darryl's of the world who are running (and you can't argue that they don't exist).  So if you and your friends are active and are trying to be more involved, kudos to you, and don't take Barack's message to heart - it wasn't for you.


Posted By: HUhistorian (June 18, 2008 at 11:16 AM)

Do agree with your entire argument, but I do agree that the notion of women trying to be "independent" is foolish. If AFrican-Americans would get married they could reep the benifits that most members of society recieve.

Tax Credits, Double Income, Support, etc...

Black women need to realize that "independence" is overrated. Get married, be kept, stay beautiful, and you won't be stressed. Im married to a wealthy man who is putting me through graduate school at Howard University. Take Note!


Posted By: CptCallamity (June 18, 2008 at 11:29 AM)

Agreed.

I was fortunate enough to have a father in my life and he actually had residential custody of his children.  Mind you, there were people in his ear telling him he couldn't, but he did, and well too!

Although I still stand behind Obama, I'm getting rather sick of the glossing over of black fathers everywhere...hell, Dads in general.  All of my friends that have kids are in their children's lives.  They aren't perfect, but they are present and doing.  I never hear praise bestowed upon them...instead I hear the symphony play on for the strength and independence of Black Single Mothers all day!  I can name dozens of men who have held their ground as fathers and leaders including my own.  These men go unnoticed and disappear into obscurity under the guise that all black men are usually deadbeats and don't take care of their own.  We know it's not true, but this is what you see and hear.  

I've engaged in conversations with women who praise single moms for what they do.  Okay.  Here's a soul clap.  However, when the question of "well how did you get into this SuperMom situation" arises, there is this immediate reprise of how this "dog" of a man left after burying his seeds.  No one questions whether or not he was just a jump-off that "accidentally" impregnated this poor woman.  The argument has been made that just as easily as it is for a man to walk into a drug store and purchase condoms (and use them consistently) , it is easy for a woman to choose from one of 12 birth control methods and find one suitable enough to use CONSISTENTLY.  Women, in this instance, are removed from this type of responsibility and accountability and instead given a free victim pass.  Now sure, posters after me will harp on the fact that it is BOTH the man and woman's responsibility, and I concur, but that is never the case.  A woman receives far more sympathy from both the church, families and society in general.

Here's to the bold, new and Independent Millenium.


Posted By: CptCallamity (June 18, 2008 at 11:39 AM)

HUhistorian:

Here's an applause for you and your "wealthy man" who is paying your way through school (?), but I have to disagree.  The benefits of marriage that gets brought up all the time is a fallacy.  Sure, you have tax credits and that mumbo jumbo, but there are severe risks of getting married nowadays as opposed to yesteryear.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the tone of your post implies that your man is a cash cow or an ATM with a d*ck attached more than a suitable, stable partner.  I don't think you needed to mention his wealth but could have instead mentioned what attributes makes him a good husband as an example to young women.  Maybe I'm wrong, but what you read reeks of entitlement.

Also, I think that there are many of us young men who are weighing the true benefit of marriage with the risk associated with divorce.  How can you try and boost an institution that has a 50% (and higher when singling out black unions) of divorce?  Divorce is very easily obtained and very detrimental to our community as well.  Marriage and divorce almost seem synonymous with one another.


Posted By: rjgarrick (June 18, 2008 at 11:44 AM)

RTF ON!  I did family law for years and saw man after man presumed to be less significant in their child's lives.  My best advice?  Get off the hip if it'll work (& it'll almost always work!).  It aint fair, but you'll have your kid & it's cheaper (and better on the soul) than fighting.  

On a different note, any examination of absentee fatherhood without taking into account that many of these men were statistically born to the cradle-to-cell pipeline of the prison industrial complex is necessarily a calumny on them and all fathers whose heart's desire is to father their children but who are institutionally prohibited from doing so beyond wage garnishment.


Posted By: Tampa Diva (June 18, 2008 at 1:13 PM)

I don't think Obama's Comments were directed at all black fathers or dad's that in trying to be in their kids lives. if you know what you're doing then let it roll off your back and move on.

But we all know men, who think that the occasional holiday gift makes him a good dad, we all know the guy who blames the woman for getting pregnant and doesn't want to help. That;s life. If you do better then good for you, but we shouldn't gloss over and make excuses for the men who aren't.


Posted By: sayWord (June 18, 2008 at 3:22 PM)

When did marriage become a "legal" union and not a "spiritual" union.  The truth of the matter is, you were married to that woman the moment you laid with her. Wether you ever went to court or not.  And trust me, once the child comes you are joined to that woman forever wether you live under the same roof or not.

But I would like some clarity on what makes a dead beat dad.  Is a dad's worht defined by his income?  How many times does a man decide to stay away because whenever he comes to see his child the mom wants drame.  What about the sisters who dont want the dad around if he wont be with her?  Should a child be caught in the middle of that?  Should a daf subject his child to that?

Not all men just choose to not be around. Some are forced to make that decision to just to live in peace. A man can not allow a child to be used as a control device.

And yes, many kids dont come out unscathed by the fatherless dynamic. But lets not be so quick to assume that the woman has no say in causing that dynamic.


Posted By: Craig (June 18, 2008 at 4:16 PM)

Jimi, your blog has forced me to consider things that I previously hadn't considered.  Thanks for the different perspective.  

I am generally a cynical person.  I purposefully adhere to the "reality" that a person can't "govern unless s/he is elected".  In other words, a politician can't makes things better, as they perceive what needs to be made better, unless s/he wins.  

The real, but possibly unfair, realpolitick is that if "B-Rock" is gonna win, he's gonna have to convince middle-aged white guys, like me, that he's also tired of the "babydaddy" phenomenon, as unwarranted as that perception might be.  I have to admit that his recent Fathers' Day speech encourages me to vote for him.  I have boughtened into the concept of "black pathology", which is, in my view, entirely a function of what I consider to be the "babydaddy" phenomenon.  However, your comments actually trouble me because I've never considered the substance of them.

By the way, I didn't post this to bait you.  Nonetheless, I feel the "need" to provide an what I believe is an honest portrayal of how many of us white folks actually feel.  As corny as it sounds, I do want us (i.e. all Americans) to "get along".


Posted By: Prepstar88 (June 18, 2008 at 4:20 PM)

It goes both ways. There are still a lot of men who take care of their kids, as well as a lot of men who don't. But many young women these days are afraid to get married because their dad wasn't ever around, or their parents got a nasty divorce. So they have an "I can do bad all by myself" mentality, and try to be Superwoman. They think that since they turned out okay with just a mom around, but that's not necessarily true.


Posted By: tigris76 (June 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM)

This article is well written. I applaud the author for his honesty and his ability to express the "other side" of the argument. I believe that the break down of the black family is an issue caused by both black men and women, and made worse by the media. However, these issues are not only in the Black community; they exist in other communities as well. I think that many of us Blacks have the tendency to point out only the negative attributes of our culture, the one's that we see perpetuated by the media, and we stereotype ourselves to the point that we are blind to the fact that it is not a uniquely Black phenomenon.

The truth is that  we are all to blame and until we wake up and stop pointing fingers at each other, we will remain in this current situation. The truth is that there is a positive for every negative, a good parent for every bad parent and etc. The truth is that as long as we keep accentuating the negative, never giving breath to the positive, we will continue to dig holes for each other to fall in.

When will we stop being so self and start thinking about what really matters; the children, the Black community, and the black legacy.


Posted By: The Spaniard (June 18, 2008 at 4:33 PM)

I'm a single father...by choice.

Marriage isn't even an option for me simply because I don't want to be married.  My personal desires and needs don't line up with being married so any marriage with me would be doomed for failure.  My children are well cared for mentally and financially.  Their mother and I are intimately involved in every aspect of their lives WITHOUT a marriage certificate and we are the best of friends to boot.

What's really needed is  a higher level of rational thinking and better parents, married or otherwise, period.  

If you can't afford to have children then DON'T have children banking on hope and good fortune in the future to bail you out.  

What is rarely said is that some people are not even remotely responsible enough to properly care and guide a human life from birth.  Good intentions are not all it takes.  Some people are just mentally illequiped for the task.

Izrael's views on this issue between men, women, and the state of child rearing are nearly 100% accurate.

Independence is great and everyone should strive for it just understand that independence does not equal bullheaded stubborness or distain for relationships with others.


Posted By: Yammer (June 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM)

Jimi, it strikes me that you want things to be fair for Jimi.  Who doesn't?  You want to not be burdened with stereotyped assumptions, the dumb questions, the pressure to demonstrate that you are a civilized member of society.  It's understandable.

But complaining isn't going to fix it.  Your editorializing makes a certain point (that it's not just men but women who are responsible for family breakdown; that there isn't a genetic predisposition for fatherlessness), but I think it's impossible for us to fully identify, let alone free ourselves of the complex web of external factors that pull on people, like stereotyping, ethnicity, gender, language, culture, and history.

Ultimately, you're NOT blamed for what you don't control.  Ultimately, you are held responsible for your actions.  And, guess what?  You're already doing what you should be doing: trying to be a good, present, accountable and responsible father.  That level of performance from you, and men like you, is what is going to turn around the image of black fatherhood.  

It's not going to happen overnight, maybe not in your generation.  But neither will poverty be solved overnight, or man's inhumanity to man, or people who insist on putting the toilet paper on the wrong way.  Take comfort that your sons and daughters may have a somewhat better childhood experience because you tried hard to be a good parent.  


Posted By: EDavis (June 18, 2008 at 5:09 PM)

I totally agree with the notion that women should consider the "what ifs" of the situation before getting into it.  But all and still the reality is that there is a great percentage of men who don't than men who do.  I commend those who do and agree that this minority is greatly overlooked.  Not only that, we seem to live in a society that thrives off pinpointing the bad in each and every situation.  Ones despair always seems to be someone else's joy.  

I have found that parents are more apt to worrying about their own personal problems with each other than they are about securing the emoitonal, physical and mental state of the child that never asked to be here.  We need to grow up and get over all the petty factors that keep us away from our children and think about their futures.  Think about the effects on those children who grow up in the midst of chaos.  All this because a physical contract was formed with no regard to pros and cons or because someone is holding on to the bitter taste of a relationship failed.

But of course, as usual, your blog didn't go without a disagreement from me.  As you said "it takes two to tango" and proceeded to say that the woman was not on birth control.  Birth control works both ways.  Just as well as a woman can pop a pill everyday and securely adhere the patch, a man can cover that thing tightly, wait to be sure the woman is doing as she may claim to be, or simply walk away.  IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO.  The choice to have relations occurs between the 2.  If you go in uncovered, unprotected and unsure you are likely to come out in an unequivocal mess.


Posted By: Eljay in ATL (June 18, 2008 at 10:18 PM)

No offense Jimi, but when Black teachers who have been teaching for twenty-four years have never met a Black father at a PTA meeting, I nor anyone else needs to hear about how you or your friends are not being represented in Obama and Cosby's analyses.  No one--I repeat, no one--not even a child's crazy Mother can prevent a father from taking an active and participatory interest in his child's education.  

I have heard all the poor excuses, but I know a few men who have taken ex-wives and/or girlfriends to court when those women attempted to deny then access to their children.  These men, however, are in the minority.  Do not misunderstand, no one wants to do this and no one should have to do this, but I have heard some men say that "She won't let me see my children" and then the subject drops.  Then I have seen the same brother have his automobile hit by someone without insurance,  and suddenly he's hiring lawyers like he has the bank account of Donald Trump!

I feel for those of you who do try to stay in the lives of your children.  But you need to stop trying to pass off your experiences as the standard.  Illegitimacy, out-of-wedlock births, and absentee fathers have become the norm for roughly 70 percent of Black children.  I am an instructor and I deal with these maladjusted youth nearly everyday.  Peddle the pitiful excuses to someone who does not have to fight to educate and repair these children who are the casualties of fatherlessness. Go Cosby and Go OBAMA!!


Posted By: Dantresomi (June 18, 2008 at 10:19 PM)

to answer naturallyalise: it was the upper class white feminist movement that did that.

While I agree that that brothers need to step it up, I felt Obama's message was untimely and a political move. Thanks for sacrificing us "brother" to get more votes in november

THIS is another reason why i put my money on Cynthia McKinney.. a black woman who is not afraid of pulling cards.


Posted By: U. Professor (June 19, 2008 at 7:23 AM)

Since when is it only the woman's responsibility to determine whether to have kids?

Men, don't want kids or concerned about taking responsibility for kids?  Think your relationship with a woman may not be for life?

Wear a condom!


Posted By: jan3cwc (June 19, 2008 at 8:45 AM)

I read every comment on this article before posting.  I do believe that the MAN  and WOMAN should take the responsiblity for the children before the "conception".  Wrap it up and swallow your pill.  It isn't that diffiuclt.  Condoms and birth control pills are a lot less expensive than day care and child support.  If you are having unprotected sex who should you blame when the strip turns positive?  Be responsible from the "beginning."


Posted By: SistaSoLovely (June 19, 2008 at 9:02 AM)

Oh boo hoo! Nobody bothered to mention the relationship where both were very much in love for years and then a pregnancy happened, then all of a sudden he ain't tryin 2 b a father and ain't tryin 2 get married just because....he is sowing his oats unknowning to the girlfriend, and his mother was a "single mom" and instills in her son that it is ok 2 b a deadbeat cause she did it  by herself and and look how well he turned out?? How about a man and woman who has known each other for years and claims he wants the pregancy within the 1st trimester, says he will marry u and move in together to start a life, and by the second trimester he no longer calls and visits......he disappears off of the face of the earth for the rest of the pregnancy......Now u condemn me for electing to b a strong, independent black woman that refuses 2 wait for a black "baby daddy" 2 step up.......once I am well on my way 2 "making it happen" for me and my children baby daddies want 2 show up with the sob stories about what they want.....they are a day late and a $ short because all of the blood, sweat, tears and sleepless nights have subsided in their absence and we are doing just fine WITHOUT a father in the picture, so now me and mines become interesting and the center of attention??? Go back to the cave u crawled out of! oh and P.S- Both were informed that I was not on birth control and a condom would be necessary to prevent pregnancy, which I bought consistently, but they elected 2 leave those condoms on the night stand even after agrument from me! My children are 12 and 4 and don't want for anything...........


Posted By: madamstbl (June 19, 2008 at 10:09 AM)

I am a single mother and I do not feel that all of this it to be placed on the mother. Not all women who are doing this alone are not doing it by choice. As a matter of fact many of the single mom's I know would rather have a family with the absent parent and try to teach strong family values. What about the fathers who change their minds once the child is here. The one's who are struggling with their own generational curse to do what's right. I understand their are some brothers out here that are trying to do what's right and have to fight for it but not everyone's mind works the same. Maybe growing up without a father helped you to undestand that you need to be there for your child, some men's mind register the exact opposite. The same goes for women and that "independence thing". You have to look at the whole picture from both sides, past and present.


Posted By: gaelsmom (June 19, 2008 at 10:13 AM)

In general, I do believe that in today's society we make it much too easy for certain women, and I use the term loosely, to have multiple children with multiple men.  In my opinion, the system is geared towards holding men accountable and not women.  There are consequences for all of our actions.  While it is true that a man should always have protection and if not then simply keep it in his pants, women have fought for their reproductive rights for much too long and; therefore, do carry a larger percent of the burden.  I believe that children borne into a union (meaning marriage or committed relationship) are the responsibility of both because it was a mutual decision whether conscious or not.  However, children born to single women exercising their "independence" and engaging in casual dating, are primarily the responsibility of the woman.  In this country, there is absolutely no reason why any woman should become pregnant by accident.  Barring horrific stories of being sexually assaulted, any woman who has an active sex life, whether it be in a monogamous relationship or with multiple partners, should be responsible for her own body.  That means, they are faithful to their birth control method (currently there is an abundance of products on the market).  Should an unplanned pregnancy still occur, then there are two other options:  adoption and sadly abortion.  I list them in this order because I truly believe an abortion is of last resort.  Self awareness is key, knowing your own limitations, your strengths, your weaknesses.  By having a child from a passing relationship and then holding that man accountable for the actions of two people is completely wrong.  Men get two chances to decide whether they want to take the chance of becoming a daddy: 1. when they decide to go home with someone they hardly know and 2. when they decide to actually jump without a net.  For women, we get the same two opportunities the guys do but add two more, by choosing to continue a pregnacy past the first trimester and then choosing to keep the baby.  As the mothers of this world and the first teachers of our children (especially our daughters), we must take full responsibility for our actions.  We cannot depend on anyone to meet our needs or those of the children we chose to bring into the world.  While I am not saying men should not be held accountable for their actions, we as real women, strong women need to abandon the victim mentally.  We must teach our sisters to abandon that old adage "he got me pregnant" no, we allowed ourselves to get pregnant, actually we chose to get pregnant by having unprotected sex, not being on any form of birth control, by engaging in promiscous behavior.  For those of us who have had children while in what we believed to be a committed relationship, my advice stands firm, don't depend on anyone to meet your needs or your child's.  Think about it, do we really want our children around men who refuse to accept responsibility, especially those of us raising little men.  I have the highest respect for men who make it a point to be a presence in their children's lives.  Children need a father whether we independent women want to admit it or not, they do.  It is up to us as future mothers to choose wisely.  We may not always have all the information and we all make mistakes and having one baby with a "dead-beat" is okay but not two or three or more, that is just sheer stupidity.


Posted By: corey79 (June 19, 2008 at 10:25 AM)

dude...

good article...

this hits home for me...and for many others...

it's the same ol' same ol'...

we only see the half empty side of the story...that's how the media portrays many situations...

this totally disregards anything positive...it's just are we smart enough to search for our own answers...

ladies, he's/we're not blaming you, and we understand your plight...

if you want to see an angry black man, ask a guy who's kids live out of state how he feels about dads who live blocks away from their kids without seeing them...

i want to spit in their faces when i see this...

(EX: MY SON LIVE'S 3,000 MILES AWAY, NOT CUZ SHE FOUND THE DREAM JOB, BUT TO BE SPITEFUL...some of her family have cut ties with her due to this...WHILE IN THE MEAN TIME, MY STEP-DAUGHTER'S BIO-DAD LIVES IN THE SAME TOWN...and i have been in the picture for two years and have not seen him come around...I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'LL SEE MY SON AGAIN, I DO FOR MY SON WHAT I AM SUPPOSED TO, OR ALL THAT I CAN FROM A DISTANCE, AND I DO MORE FOR HIS DAUGHTER THAN HE DOES...she's my little girl...BUDDY, I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'LL SEE MY SON AGAIN...SERIOUSLY...AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS GUY, CUZ I MAY JUST SPIT IN HIS FACE...)

i like your article bro, cuz you are not saying that it doesn't happen, cuz it does...

and you're not saying it's all at fault due to women, cuz it's not...(it takes a village...and we are our brother's keeper...)

but this situation/topic is not as cut and dry as everyone would think...

BASICALLY...

FOR EVERY FATHER WHO'S DOING WRONG, THERE'S TWO DOING RIGHT...

AND FOR EVERY MOTHER WHO'S DOING RIGHT, THERE'S ONE DOING WRONG...

(and as a few of my friends have found out...your relationship with your children will be strained once they get old enough to see for themselves...)

ONCE AGAIN, GOOD ARTICLE BRO...

LIKE I SAID, IT REALLY HITS HOME...

LADIES, PLEASE ALWAYS LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN...

YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE SPACE FOR US TO SEE OUR KIDS...

BUT YOU SURE SHOULDN'T TAKE SPACE AWAY SO THAT WE CAN'T...

IF WE DON'T DO WHAT WE NEED...THE KID WILL SEE...

AND GUYS, UNDERSTAND IT IS UP TO YOU TO DO YOUR PART...

SHE HAS A LIFE TO LIVE (IF YA'LL ARE NOT TOGETHER), AND IT'S YOUR DUTY TO SHOW UP...NOT HERS TO MAKE YOU SHOW UP...

ONE LAST THING...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DEAD-BEAT-DAD...

ONLY DEAD-BEAT-FAMILYS (PATERNAL SIDE)...

IF MY BROTHER WAS NOT DOING HIS PART, HE WOULD NEVER STEP FOOT IN MY HOUSE...

EVER...I'D DO FOR THE KID AND SPIT IN MY BROTHER'S FACE EVERY TIME I SAW HIM...

AND I'VE ASKED MY MOTHER/SISTER TO DO THE SAME TO ME IF I WASN'T DOING WHAT I NEEDED...

WE ARE OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER...

AND THERE ARE WAYS TO HOLD EACH OTHER RESPONSIBLE...


Posted By: jamesr@diversitycouncil.org (June 19, 2008 at 10:27 AM)

I am of the opinion that we as a people, tend to look at statements being made by people

in th political sphere as blanket statements relating to "all people".  With that being said,

sometimes the shoe fits, and sometimes it doesn't.  What is important is looking at the issue,

discussing it and helping each other make the changes.  Independence, not just for black

woman, is in someways a two edged sword.  Having the ability to live and cope on a day to

day means there are some decisions and circumstances that will not require more than one

person, and that is real.  It is true that sometimes woman don't need men to be validated.

Validation comes from a persons self concept.  However, the inability to communicate and

relate to others, because of a person's ability to handle things on their own, makes it hard for

people to share that independence with others.  I do agree with Cosby on certain issues, I do

agree with Barrack on several issues, but I am not blind to the fact that there are issues that

they are not in touch with.  The true question is, how can we take the things said right, and

emphasis those, while taking the things said wrong, and discussing them without marginalizing

the efforts of those who may have a point.  Whether Cosby or Barrack, we can't deny the reality

of what's happening in our community...with our people.  Instead of attack them, or their positions

let's attack the problem.  Isn't that the most important discussion to have?


Posted By: corey79 (June 19, 2008 at 11:05 AM)

we all have something to do with this, even if the shoe is not fitting your foot...

as a whole...

this is not a finger-pointing discussion, just as racism isn't, or any discussion for that matter...

let's treat this and everything else like HIV/AIDS...

it doesn't matter how it got here...it's here...WHAT CAN WE DO TO PREVENT THIS AND HELP THOSE IN THE SITUATION...

any one thing affects us all (like butterfly effect/chaos theory)...

there are ways that we can help hold each other responsible/accountable...

it takes a group effort...

i don't mind Obama's statements or Cosby's...

or Ferraro's, Rendell's or Wright's for that matter...

only because i know there is more...

think...

we can't separate church/state...just as we can't separate feelings/thinking objectively...

we have grown thin-skinned...

we take general statements way too personally...(guilty conscious' maybe...)

and...

well, there's a lot more...

i'm open for new thought's/ideas if you are...

someone has to make the tough decisions...

and everyone won't make it to the finish line...

(just a little something to think about...from the most simple guy on the planet...)


Posted By: rastaman (June 19, 2008 at 11:13 AM)

Because of my own experiences, I felt a need to add my 2 cents to this discussion.  The general perception as Jimmy points out is that black fathers are primarily "dead-beat" dads and as we all know perception becomes reality in many people's minds.  I agree that too often the difficulties in raising children have both mothers and fathers as culprits to the deficit of the child.  As a single mature black professional male, I am always questioned by black women as to why I don't have children.  My answer that I have never been married is met by the derisions of selfishness, am I gay or maybe I can't have kids.   The fact that many of these women come from single parent homes without the benefit of fathers present speaks volume to me and indicates that this maybe a person to avoid being involved with...  

So there is a pathology of irresponsibility and its inludes both men and women.   I must admit that it took a conscious effort and probably some luck that I am not a baby daddy because as a young man I attempted to sow as much wild oats as the next guy.   But I also knew enough to know that just because someone is offering me a cookie, I don't have to take it and I made sure to keep it wrapped up.  


Posted By: SistaSoLovely (June 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM)

Here we go again with the same excuse that "it takes 2"....I only hear men using that excuse over and over....Yeah both parties are responsible but the WOMAN carries the child and births the child. But strangely enough when a man is getting his groove on minus a condomn he seems 2 never think of pregnancy, especially if he loves the woman. I really am starting to feel that men find abortion the ultimate solution 2 pregnancy because they do not have to lay down and have a fetus sucked out of them.

The comment about "always leaving the door open" is not a mothers responsibility....Why should I let the father come and go as he pleases, I do not have the benefit of doing so, and if I elected to would be deemed an Unfit Mother and my children would be taken away. Kids need a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs and a whole bunch of things.....Fathers need 2 step up and stop making excuses, Period!


Posted By: khayree1 (June 19, 2008 at 11:32 AM)

I will like all Blacks to read, The Willie Lynch Letter:making of a slave. It'll explain alot of what is going on, today. Please read this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Moses (June 19, 2008 at 12:16 PM)

Sociology, not Science -- is to blame for Bill Cosby's and Sen. Barack Obama's bass-ackward philosophy's towards the African American echo-generation father.  Not only are their tainted views as bias and racist as a stereotype can be, they are severely counter-productive to the struggle to erase racism (eracism).  They might contest that their comments are merely constructive criticisms, constituting concern for a course which considers change.  However, Harvard "ain't letting in no lazy ass darkies who'd rather kick it with the homies than take care of home(work)."  And besides, Harvard don't serve no chicken and watermelons.


Posted By: Moses (June 19, 2008 at 12:34 PM)

Divisive is a word that describes an action one has taken to intrude, manipulate, or change anothers natural or structured course.(Moses dictionary, yet to be published.)

Dear Black Girl,

Become more I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T, but DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?  Materialism replaces fundamentalism.  Today trumps traditions.  Fun and Finance defeats family values.

Dear Black Boy,

I didn't call you man, cause you ain't.  Hey stupid!  Can you run fast or shoot a good shot, cause the wellfare lines waiting if you can't.  Unemployed victim of racism are you.  Can't find a decent job cause your fingers too greasy from eating all that fried chicken. Too lazy to peel banana's.

Dear Black Mother,

Work, work, work.  Make that money sista.  Get that money baby.  Get that money.  Money, money money.  Moe money, moe money, moe money.  

Dear Black Father,

Ain't nothing wrong with the hood.  Why go $350,000 for a four bedroom in Eldorado Hills, when you can live in your momma old two bedroom house garage and make about $35,000/ year FOREVER?  Stupid.


Posted By: truthdetecto (June 19, 2008 at 12:47 PM)

Brother Izrael is so right! Note that Snowbama had nothing to say on Mother's day although he was abandoned by his white mother as well as by his Black Father. Maybe some comment about white women abandoning their Black children is in order, but of course, that would not be politically correct for Snowbama to say. He can gain a lot of white votes by bashing Black men as opposed to criticizing his white mother and white people, and gullible Black folks are going to vote for him no matter how much Snowbama insults and ignores them. He made the Black Mayor Nagin in New Orleans and the National Conference of Blacks Mayors who were meeting in New Orleans recently look like a bunch of buffoons by not showing up at their conference, foolishly boasting in the media about having to move the event to the Superdome to accomadate Snowbama's supporters. What clowns! They could have met in a hotel room after Snowbama gave them a repeat performance of his Tavis Smiley treatment. Snowbama continues to dance and laugh all the way to the Bank as he pimps Blacks for votes and money. Stop laughing Black folks, the joke is on us.


Posted By: clyde (June 19, 2008 at 1:25 PM)

What about the welfare system that encouraged having children out of wed lock by providing more support to women who were not married. The more kids you had, the more money you got, unless you got married.  The american taxpayers paid the doctors, the hospitals, and everything else associated with having the babies. Then we went on to pay for the housing, clothing, healthcare(including eye and dental care which most of the people paying the taxes to support these programs can't afford for their own families), education, and most of the time indirectly supporting the man who was living with the welfare mom and refused to work. What slavery could never do to the black family, the american welfare system accomplished. All so the politicians (almost exclusivly democrats like obama and clinton by the way) could buy votes and gain power by making more and more people dependant on the government ( which as we all know is every hard working taxpayer in America). I know what i am talking about because my very own sister was one of these mothers. In the seventies, when her children were still small she tried to go to work to support her family but was told by the welfare department in hamilton ohio that if she went to work or got married, she would lose all of the assistance she was receiving. It was impossible for her to make enough money starting out to support herself and her two children. The public assistance dept couldn't give her partial benefits to help untll she got established in her job, it was total dependence on the system or nothing at all. This has nothing to do with race, my sister was white.

As far as black men and the culture is concerned, i know plenty of responsible, hard working, family loving black men who love their kids and take care of business every day in spite of having to combat the onslot of cultural degredation and influence that is our modern society. Whether it is Oprah and her minions with their tired and overplayed women's lib dialog, or the promotion of rape, anger,  sex, and violence that permiates most of the modern music and video scene.

Besides, we keep forgeting that the best way to insure that kids have the best chance in life is to

be born into a "family". Who said girls have to be responsible for birth control. How about the girls and boys both being responsible enough not to have sex untill they are ready to have a family. How about we as a society being responsible enough to promote such out of date cultural ideas as abstinence, fidelity and two parent families. My goodness, those concepts could could render this whole discusion mute and go a long way to solving the problem with STDs  all at the same time.


Posted By: sydickerson (June 19, 2008 at 1:48 PM)

Ok. How to put this....not every mother is againt the father. I'm going to speak on my experience because I don't know of anybody's elses. I have five children and have four fathers between them. Oh, the horror, but I was married to two of them. My first husband, the father of my two oldest, decided having a wife at home, taking care of his two toddlers was just to confining for him. A co-worker, who had three children of her own, was his choice to sleep with and spend time with instead of coming home to assist with his responsibilities. And when I found out, the 'ol, "She don't make me feel like you do.." was the apology I got. Did it end, no. So, I left because I decided I wasn't going to continue to let him treat me like a maid and something on the side of his satisfaction instead of his choice to raise a family with.

Second dad, not married to him, and was in a significantly long relationship with. First time we though I was expecting, he was all rubbing on the stomach, we are going to be a family, but no baby. Well, when I actually did get pregnant from the "last time" sex, he skyed up and disappeared. What was killing about that was that we shared a circle of friends and whenever I came around and he was there, he would leave out the other door to avoid me. Three years after our son was born and an ordered paternity test that was 99.9998%, he sends a message through our mutual friend that he will try to do child support. Don't get me wrong, I made earlier attempts to get the parental conformation that was staring him in the face because our son was and still is his twin, brightness, slanty eyes and all. I even tried to get his family involved by bring our child around them, but I got the.."When he is ready to claim him, we will claim him". WHAAA?

Third father, second husband. Now I waited two years to get pregnant with him (mind you I said WITH). We courted, was engaged for a year, married and then had a baby. Guess what? He decided I wasn't young enough and 5 months after I gave birth to our son he decieded to hook up with a female 10 years younger than both of us and got her pregnant. And you say we mothers keep our kids away from their fathers? I attempted to salvage my marriage, relaationship, whatever you want to call it by telling him that I forgive him and let's do councling and let's get past the bs. What did I get? The other other telling me that she was sitting next to him the entire time laughing at how "stupid" I sounded. Now this was my HUSBAND and his other other. I used birth control, I waited and did it the right way and to this day, my child is 7 years old and he has only paid, I'll give him $250 in child support. You asked about the men who run from responsibility? I got three for you right here.

Lastly, father number four. I will give you him becasue I was off my game when my last came along, but trust me, Mr. I want my son, but won't give you anything other that what the child support orders ($140) is made to go by that child support order. He gets his son, on his scheduled weekends. But ask him to assist w/ daycare which is $400 a month and I get, "you need to budget what I send you." WHAAAA??? He was my bed and I lie in it every day, but my son gets taken care of.

So with that said, I say to your statement,  "We are part of a generation of hip-hop dads struggling against media perceptions, the court system and accepted wisdom to be fathers to our children.", the father of mine wouldn't do the little they do now if it wasn't for the court system in their lives. I was and still am accountable. I was on birth control and waited and wanted my "daddies" to hang out. So tell me what do you have to say about that, Brotha? Don't categorize us "mommies" as only wanting sperm and the trash taken out. I wanted the man along with it and to cook his food so he could have trash to take out. Peace Spoken.


Posted By: sydickerson (June 19, 2008 at 2:03 PM)

I needed to to a P.S.

I'm not on welfare and the kids are under my health insurance. I struggle to keep the lights on, food on the table and clothes on there backs even with the little child support I get. And yes, I do say little because less than minimun wage child support doesn't even cover that the month's daycare. Why you say minimum wage amt? Ask him why he argued with the judge? Again, continued peace.


Posted By: The Black Snob (June 19, 2008 at 3:06 PM)

I get Jimi's point. The black family has major issues with a majority of black children born in broken homes. But this is part of a vicious cycle that effects men and women. When my parents grew up in the 50s almost everyone they knew was married. The same could be said for me, who grew up in an all black suburb in St. Louis County. The problem that people face today is at the result damaging psychology and mistrust between black people.

When you have individuals expecting the worst out of people you're going to get that. Most black women expect black men to cheat on them, treat them badly and not play a role in their child's lives. A lot of black men think black women are manipulative and only care about money and are merely vessels to obtain sexual pleasure. With this mindset and both sides coming from single parent homes where their fathers were non-existent, of course problems are going to rise. Black women who don't see marriage as an option, therefore the man is the enemy and men acting out the pathology their fathers taught them.

I am not surprised that Jimi and his peers would encounter women who are manipulative and conniving. And he is obviously aware of the many men who aspire to be little but sperm donors and have no interest in being a father no matter if it were a one-night-stand or their wife. When you're dealing with a people filled with a combination of self-loathing and aversion to responsibility you are going to have these problems.

I am 30, I have no children and I am not married because it is hard wading through the father (and mother) issues of men in the black community. Black people are adverse to talking about their problems, preferring to either lash out or suffer in silence. I'm looked at as a freak because I chose to do neither. I didn't particularly care for Barack Obama's speech or Bill Cosby's sunglass wearing rants, but I don't think they were just making up things either.


Posted By: growth12 (June 19, 2008 at 4:00 PM)

The logic in this piece is all about the pretzel.


Posted By: RyderHaywood (June 19, 2008 at 10:14 PM)

Come on Jimi. As a young black man, I can honestly say that most black men are to blame for the single-parent homes or female-lead homes in black America. Nine times out of ten a child will be cared for by his/her mother instead. The reason there are so many black female lead-homes is because the number of educated, responsible, caring, or even just' decent' black men has dropped dramatically (i.e. incarceration,unemployment) ,which leads to a pool of very poor resources when it comes time for black women to choose spouses.  


Posted By: Elliemae (June 20, 2008 at 4:02 PM)

THE BLACK FAMILY AND COMMUNITY IS FACING FRIGHTENING CHALLENGES, AND IT'S TIME TO STOP POINTING FINGERS.  A SERIOUS LOOK AT THE CAUSES OF THE PATHOLOGY OF THE BLACK FAMILY, THE CULTURAL DIVISIONS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, AND THE EDUCATIONAL FAILURE OF OUR CHILDREN IS URGENTLY NEEDED.   WHILE THE CAUSES MAY NEVER BE TOTALLY AGREED UPON, HOWEVER, WE DO KNOW ONE THING:   EDUCATION  AND INCOME  ARE TWO PRIMARY OBSTACLES TO BLACK FAMILY STABILITY.  SO LET'S FOCUS ON THAT.  BLACK MEN MUST GET EDUCATIONS THAT WILL ENABLE THEM TO GET JOBS THAT WILL EARN THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO SUPPORT A FAMILY .    BLACK WOMEN MUST BE WILLING TO MAKE REASONABLE DEMANDS AND PROVIDE THE NECESSARY SUPPORT.  AND THEY MUST BOTH DEVELOP AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ADULTS AND GOOD PARENTS.  THESE ARE ROUGH CHALLENGES IN TODAY'S WORLD.  BUT IF WE WANT TO SURVIVE INDIVIDUALLY AND AS A PEOPLE, WE HAD BETTER GET SERIOUS AND FACE REALITY.  TIME IS RUNNING OUT.  


Posted By: Abriel (June 27, 2008 at 1:33 AM)

marriage or unity without living in the same house is important for any child even if its not their biological father or mother our children need to see women and men interact in a positive happy manner and installing grounding love in their sweet little hearts at a very young age its soo important for them to establish all this goodness at a very young age until the age of 12teen when they feel the need to break free ....the stepping stones must be set quickly they grow so fast.

Women and Men must be aware of this urgency....they are our future


Posted By: Pip (July 7, 2008 at 4:50 PM)

You have an interesting take on a wide range of subjects. Even when I don't necessarliy agree with what you have to say, it still makes me think. Jah Bless You!

It demonstrates what I've believed for quite some time: Contrary to the typical mass media representations of Black folks as some monolithic group of stereotypes, we cover the breadth and depth of all humanity in our individual views not just in our skin color. The fact that we don't own or control more and larger pieces of the mass media is a HUGE contributing factor in why we are portrayed so poorly, overall, by the people who currently run it. Do we actually expect that those who would malign us for so long to magically see the error of their ways and correct it on their own? How naive.

In this particular instance I'm in total agree with you, and believe that B-Rock missed a golden opportunity to address the larger and more pertinent issue of "deadbeat" or missing fathers from ALL racial persuasions in this country. I currently live in the "multi-culti" Bay area, Oakland, to be more specific; but I see way more white guys and others skipping out on their familial and financial responsibilities than Black males. But THAT sure doesn't make the "news" here or anywhere else!

Obama, in his rush to show white folks that he can stand up to the issues addressing the various aspects of the Black community, dropped the ball on this one.

And don't get me started on Bill Cosby. I remember long ago when he was pointing out how many European artists and other white people were stealing aesthetic ideas and ideals from relatively unknown African artists during their forays into Africa and then incorporating them into their own works uncredited. But I guess that approach didn't help Bill pay the bills or make friends in the entertainment industry.

As such, I have no respect for his "contributions" to solving the problems in this area by picking out poor Black for further derision. Any fool can see what the problem is and talk mess about it. Unless he plans to do more about the problem than donate some of the money he has made primarily from white folks, he needs to Shut the F--- Up or take white people and others to task, also! But is he willing to bite the white hand that has fed him and his family so well for so long? It certainly seems not. On this count, he's been as M.I.A. as many of these deadbeat, missing dads of all creeds and colors.


Posted By: RoxyRhae (July 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM)

What about condoms?


Posted By: hardblues (July 10, 2008 at 6:10 PM)

I see Sen. Obama's comments as politically calculated to make him more appealing to a broader range of voters, which, if so, makes him less appealing. I whole-heartedly agree with your comments as despite sex, race or social standing, we all spend too much time talking about who to blame rather than using our time and words to instill what is right. Focusing blame on another; stereo-typing a sex, a race or culture, aside from almost always being factually incorrect, solves nothing. Wouldn't it be better to discuss the value of family; the rewards of family; the opportunity to grow in a way one cannot grow without accountability to another or others. This is a truth of all people and therefore, should be said to all people. Blame, is devisive and I think we've how well that works.


Posted By: Another Spin On Barack's Speech - The BN Village (July 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM)

PingBack from http://www.bnvillage.co.uk/news-politics-village/99847-another-spin-barack-s-speech.html#post1480117


Posted By: justawhiteguy (July 12, 2008 at 6:09 PM)

Can I make a comment about Men and Women, and keep the race out?  White women get pregnant out of wedlock as well and percentages, indicating who is MORE wrong, are pointless.  Here is the cold hard, mother nature fact:  After the mutually irresponsible act, the woman is the one who is pregnent. Period. End of story.  You can preach "RESPONSIBILITY" all you want, and to what end????  You are definitely already dealing with two irresponsible people.  They had unprotected sex outside of a stable relationship.  Demanding responsiblity from the irresponsible is like demanding rain in the desert, you might get it.