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Jimi Izrael

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Posted Monday, May 26, 2008 5:46 PM

Spike Lee gets a Black History Lesson

izraelj

Director Spike Lee criticized actor/director Clint Eastwood for not having black people in his two war films, but Dirty Harry wasn’t having it. Eastwood pointed out that during World War II, most if not all American military units were segregated, and he was doing two different films about very specific stories that involved a part of war history that didn’t necessarily have black people in the narrative, so he couldn’t be expected to add them. As it turns out, Eastwood got it right.

 

“The story was about the men who raised the flag and we can't make them black if they were not there,” says Eastwood in an interview. “So tell [Lee]: Why don't you go back and study your history and stop mouthing off!" Clint socked it to Spike in a big way. Good for him.

 

Lee should learn that he doesn’t have to say something every time a mike is put in his face. I know: black people are always being written out of American history. So you can half-way give Lee a pass for his presumption. But let this be a lesson to all of us, that before you go indicting Da White Man for every social ill and indignity suffered by people of color, make sure you got the story right.

 

Nothing more undignified than shooting your mouth off half-cocked.

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Member Comments

Posted By: Cobb (May 26, 2008 at 6:16 PM)

There's a really good gay joke as a rejoinder to your last sentence. You do the math.


Posted By: alegna (May 26, 2008 at 8:07 PM)

Actually Lee was right. African Americans have not only fought in every war this country has waged but also fought at Iwo Jima during WWII. Even if the the film was focused on a specific group of white soldiers it is not an accurate reflection to not have any black units in the film even in passing. This at least acknowledges their contribution. I found Eastwood's comments too dismissive.


Posted By: mwuagi (May 27, 2008 at 9:57 AM)

I am a Black Air Force Officer, and I love to see Black veterans given their due... Movies like "Tuskegee Airmen", "Men of Honor", and "Glory" make my heart well up with pride...  

But in the case of "Flags of Our Fathers", I believe that Mr. Lee is wrong.  And to answer Alengna: if Mr. Lee or Alegna bothered to watch "Flags", they would find black Marines in a cutaway shot early in the film, and in a historical photograph that appears during the closing credits. Saying there are no African-Americans in the film is simply incorrect.


Posted By: gothamchick (May 27, 2008 at 10:42 AM)

I am not in the habit of defending my husband.  He certainly does not need me to do that.  But, I must set the record straight.  Spike did not arbitrarily bring up Clint Eastwood.  A reporter during a press conference about his film Miracle at St. Anna asked Spike why Clint Eastwood did not have any black soldiers in his WWII films.  Spike's response to the reporter, "you have to ask Clint."   We all know Spike will say what is on his mind and sometimes he gets it wrong.  But sometimes for the sport of fun media the whole story is not always told.  


Posted By: izraelj (May 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM)

This feels like a case where Spike should have thought out his comments more thoroughly, given the fact that he's old at at this.


Posted By: swagganj (May 27, 2008 at 8:39 PM)

God knows that I love Spike and his work, and I think that his mission to give a voice to the under-appreciated black veterans of WWII, is more than commendable. I will be the first on line to see the movie. But in this case Spike was dead wrong. If it is true that a reporter threw Spike an alley-oop of a question, then it is also true that he slammed it home. To me, his comments came across as a sad attempt to draw publicity to his project, by dragging Eastwood through the mud. Spike is better that that, and should let his fine work stand on its own...

P.Cash

The P.Cash Perspective

http://pcashperspective.wordpress.com


Posted By: Kinsmankid (May 27, 2008 at 9:45 PM)

The websites you reference in your column are for Circuit City!?!?

Anyway, Blacks shouldn't wait for white filmmakers to tell our story.  I can't wait for Miracle at St. Anna to hit the big screen.


Posted By: AimeeB (May 27, 2008 at 11:43 PM)

In the same vein, I was always disturbed by a Erykah Badu video from years ago when she showed women at a Black Panthers meeting participating meaningfully. As far as I know, women were not welcome at these meetings, and to suggest they were, even in a music video, misrepresents the struggle Black women faced between simultaneously experiencing the civil rights movement and the women's movement, that latter that they were not so much welcome in.


Posted By: izraelj (May 28, 2008 at 8:04 AM)

Aimee, that was a sticking point for me too. I think, insofar as art is about re-imagining, we have to be careful not to misinform.


Posted By: Cobb (May 28, 2008 at 11:04 AM)

You know I bet you can have a discussion for about two days about black soldiers in a national blog and then the subject will go away for another year of three. I gotta ask, what difference does it make? About zero. A friend's Navy buddy, a black man, served on the Forrestal with John McCain on his last flight over Vietnam. He says McCain is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Is that going to change the way blackfolks behave today in a meaningful way? No. So I wish people stopped acting like telling the truth about black history in popular culture is going to change conditions in popular culture. It's not. People who know the historical facts do so for their own edification and we ignore them every day - because the overwhelming majority doesn't care enough to find out on their own. They have to wait for somebody to spend 50 million dollars to make a movie instead of buying a 10 dollar book on their own.

The book, by the way, is Captain Blackman by John A. Williams.  Once you understand the full contribution of black soldiers in real American history, you should not give a damn about movies or even less about what people say about movies.


Posted By: mini (May 28, 2008 at 3:51 PM)

The comment about revisionism in an Erykah Badu video got me thinking about revisionism in a movie I just watched.  "Mansfield Park" (2000) is the adaptation of the Jane Austen novel of the same name.  The central family is fabulously wealthy thanks to the slave trade.  In the book, this doesn't seem to bother Austen or any of her characters.  She's way more concerned with the sexism that affects upper-middle class British women.  But in the movie, the heroine is outraged by the way her family makes it's money.  And the movie ends with the uncle deciding to invest in something besides human chattle.  This revision is intellectually dishonest, designed to let the target audience (white women) off the hook for enjoying this work uncritically.  


Posted By: Dantresomi (May 28, 2008 at 4:05 PM)

I am a huge fan of Spike. While I admit that Spike was wrong. African American units did not fight at Iwo Jima and did not put up the flag, Eastwood should have addressed the issue of African Americans not being depicted in war movies. I think that was Spike's point.

Like another poster said, we should not have to wait for someone else to tell our story.


Posted By: kevjohn (May 29, 2008 at 1:04 PM)

Cobb, I will always give a damn about movies; it is the quintessential American artform. Not that anyone should go to the movie theater expecting a history lesson, but the whitewashed movies (and television shows) we're subjected to every year don't reflect reality either. I go to the movies seeking entertainment, but that doesn't exclude the delivery of educational information during the film.

Black soldiers of the day may not have been intergral to this particular moment in history, but what DID Uncle Sam have them off doing at the time? I'd probably be just as interested in seeing a film about their experience as I would be about seeing a film about the Iwo Jima flag raisers. And I've just learned recently of the Japanese-American troops (the 442nd Infantry Regiment) who I'd also be far more interessted in seeing more of.

But let's not gloss over gothamchick's point that this is a made-up controversy to begin with. Her description of Spike's comments match other accounts I've seen elsewhere. The end result: Spike Lee gets a little dirt thrown on him, and some of The Other Folks get yet another chance to whine about how WE'RE always making a big deal about race.


Posted By: alegna (May 29, 2008 at 8:26 PM)

This is in respone to Mwuagi's comment.

You're absolutely right, I have not seen the film. I was responding to both Eastwood's comments and Lee's comments. That's why I used the word "if".

From other posters it is clear that this isn't the whole story and just as Lee's comments were mischaracterized, Eastwood's may have been too.

I just wanted to clarify.


Posted By: stewc22 (May 30, 2008 at 9:20 PM)

African American soldiers were in the invasion of Iwo Jima Feb19.toMar28.1945.The immediate force was 4th&5th division marines with  3rd division initialy in reserve.If you landed on Iwo Jima you saw action.African American marines of the 33rd,34th,36th,marine depot & 8th ammunition company's along with other support units of the 3rd,4th,and 5th divisions.One of many marines  was 21 year old sergeant and platoon leader named Gene Doughty of the 8th ammunition.The platoon fighting in darkness repelled battle hardned enemy soldiers.They had no idea how many they killed until sunrise.A company of enemy soldiers lay dead.This was repeated in one form or another on Iwo Jima.Because of this distinguished service at Iwo Jima they received The Navy Unit Commendation ribbon awarded to Fifth Amphibious Corps United States Fleet Marine Force.African Americans have sacrificed their blood and lives in many conflicts sometimes with little or no recognition.


Posted By: Darryl Cox (June 2, 2008 at 12:31 PM)

I don't understand the brouhaha. Spike Lee was asked a question that he could not answer and he referred the person asking the question to someone who could answer the question. I knew black men who served in the Pacific theater during World War II. The fact that they were in racially segregated units does not mean that they were not active participants. I think Spike Lee was trying to make a point not about Clint Eastwood but about the tendency even among the most well intentioned filmmakers to leave black Americans out of American history.

By the way, are folks aware that 55 of the 70 American soldiers who were executed in Europe from 1943 to 1946 by the American military were black Americans? Blacks only comprised about 9 percent of the military at that time but nearly 79 percent of those executed.


Posted By: theoriginal MissZ (June 2, 2008 at 6:13 PM)

mr lee is a bigot and his films are racially oriented to cause excitement of the mob mentality.


Posted By: jscott8155 (June 7, 2008 at 5:27 PM)

In all of the films I've seen about the Black experience in the military there has never been an in depth accurate account of the RACISM and how it affected military personnel, their families, and white comrades. The Black man's war(s) were entirely differnt (even in peace time) than their White counterparts.


Posted By: mwayne (June 8, 2008 at 9:54 AM)

Go take a look at the government statistic website. It has all the statistics about all the wars. Look at the number of white and blacks who served and the numbers who were killed and wounded. They are broken down into every race and religion. I think you will be surprised. The number of white vs. black served and killed are staggering, not even a close margin. So we did not simply send every black american to war. If we had the numbers would not be so far apart.


Posted By: Klaymore (June 13, 2008 at 1:58 AM)

"A reporter during a press conference about his film Miracle at St. Anna asked Spike why Clint Eastwood did not have any black soldiers in his WWII films.  Spike's response to the reporter, "you have to ask Clint."--gothamchick

"'He did two films about Iwo Jima back to back and there was not one black soldier in both of those films," Lee said Tuesday at the Cannes Film Festival, where he was a judge in an online short-film competition.

'Many veterans, African-Americans, who survived that war are upset at Clint Eastwood. In his vision of Iwo Jima, Negro soldiers did not exist. Simple as that. I have a different version,' Lee said."--Associated Press

Those are indeed two radically different accounts of Mr. Lee's statements, deserving of sharply diverse responses.


Posted By: SethTE (June 17, 2008 at 4:41 PM)

Black people please we have to stop complaining about every time a white man doesn't include us in whatever he is doing. Let us write our own histories! Let us build our own schools to teach that histrory. Make our own movies so you can put as many colored folks in there as you want. I mean think about it, the last time the white man tried to really include black folks in anything was the building of this nation, and it was on our backs. Why haven't we learned yet to do our own thing? And let Erykah do her thing! First, it was a great song. Second, if in her MUSIC VIDEO she wants to empower women in ways they weren't previously, let's be OK with that. It's art. Ever see a bunch of Black men at the Last Supper? Or a woman in there? It is a representation of ideas. We truly should be happy for some positive imagery in music videos, the more the better.

http://sethandray.wordpress.com


Posted By: jmatlock (July 2, 2008 at 11:55 AM)

I feel you are unjusifiably attacking Spike.  Spike Lee did not bring up this topic, he was asked by a reported in reference to his upcoming war film focused on African Americans, why Clint Eastwood did not have any African Americans in his film, he responded you'd have to ask Clint Eastwood.  I'd actually would not be surprised if Spike hadn't even seen the movie.  From what I understand, it didn't do all that well, either one of them, and especially amongst the African American demographic.  So if anybody should be getting blasted here, it should be the reporter who asked the question.  Did they see the movie?  Maybe they would have noticed the very limited inclusion of African Americans in the film, they were there, but you'd have had to have a finger on the rewind button to spot em.


Posted By: Ratty (July 7, 2008 at 3:43 AM)

It is quite interesting to me that no one mentions Ira Hayes. Hmmmmmm.

Yes, Spike was being silly.

Sock puppets are whimsical.

BTW (for the woefully uninformed): We (humans) are of the biological order primates: white, black, yellow, red, neanderthal....

My 2 cents plain.