Hi,

White guy here.  Born and raised in a lily white suburb, next to other lily white suburbs, friend to approximately one African American growing up because, in his words, he was only one in the county (every time he met new white people he would let them know they could use him as the "black friend" that whites always bring up when they are trying to convince someone they are not racist).

In any event, the police presence in my hometown was pretty light.  The first time I was ever pulled over (for expired plates--I forgot to put the new sticker on) the cop came around to the driver side window and asked for my license and proof of insurance, whereupon I leaned over to my glove compartment because that's where they were.  And he flipped out.  Asked me what in the hell I was doing and ordered me to stop while putting his hand on his holster.  I explained that I was getting my license and registration and then he let me continue, but the exchange was jarring.

I later read an article about "educating" black, inner city youths about the "proper" way to act when you are pulled over.  The article suggested putting your hands on the wheel so the officer can see them as he approaches, answering every question with "Yes Sir, No Sir" (or "Ma'am"), and not moving an inch until you ask the office if you can and why you need to.  

I took every suggestion to heart, and subsequent stops have been almost pleasant.  Undoubtedly, my race and geographic location are responsible for most of that, but I have had two officers thank me for asking them if I could check my glove compartment before doing so.

For what it is worth, I think all young men (and young women), white, black, suburban, urban--whatever--would benefit from such instruction.  I do not see it as a swipe at the black community--it is just an acknowledgement that most young black men, like most young white men, have no experience interacting with police officers and would benefit from learning the rules ahead of time.  For that reason, I think comparing the support of this instruction with the black codes misses the mark.  Teaching young white and black men the rules is something much different than the disparate treatment whites and blacks receive as a result of not knowing them.

So, I do think the course is a good idea.  For everyone.

--Hank

I believe Chris Rock's sketch, "How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police", sets down some excellent guidelines.

I agree with Hank in that there does need to be some sort of "rules of engagement" set up between cops and "normal people".  The only issue is that that won't solve the problem of cops overreacting due to skin color. A lot of times, these "poloce accidents" are caused over very samll, non-aggressive actions. How do you take something out of your wallet aggressively? How is holding your cell phone an aggressive act? I think this "rules of engagement" thing should be more than just giving citizens a list of commands to prevent an officer from killing them, but there should at least be some degree of accountablility and reason from the police side as well. It's very odd that a police officer would be alarmed by someone simply going into their glove compartment. that's what the glove compartment is made for. It would be like me working at a gas staion and being alarmed anytime someone opens their gas cap on their car. Now i am aware that some people keep more than insurance and registration in their glove compartments, but there at least has to be a degree of reason there on the police officers behalf until the person does something geuninely suspicious. This is the same reason racial profiling doesn't work. it's too general to provide any sort of meaningful information.

Talk about perception - driving my completely legal, insured up the wazoo, currently licensed self down the main straeet of Ladera Heights - a squad car (LA sheriffs no less) and they pull in behind me and the only thing funny was the drivers partner on about page three checking to see if my 05 hyundai (car theifs dream catch I am sure) was some how hot - how much more dangerous would it have been if I was an African-American driver - Perception is everything - how about instaed of teaching youth on how to deal with cops teaching cops how to deal with the people they are supposed protect and serve - fat chance I suspect.

Dang Iratus...I think I've been pulled over by the same cop! (I live in Ladera Heights). In my 03 BMW 323, I was pulled over on LaCienega for what the Sheriff  said was, "changing lanes suspiciously." WTH! WTF! Are you kidding me? The lane was merging and either I had to get out of it or I would've ended up over the cliff! He went onto ask me how long I had the car and where I got it from. This just happened 3 weeks ago ...

I'm a middle-aged white woman in the midwest who has been planning the "how to behave when stopped by police" discussion that I will be having soon with my white midwestern teenage niece.  I've considered this simply a standard, common sense discussion to have.  It seems to me that having such seminars at churches, colleges, community centers and community ed/afterschool programs should be a cultural norm in all but the most sparsely populated areas.  

Re: Dewfish comment: "I think this "rules of engagement" thing should be more than just giving citizens a list of commands to prevent an officer from killing them, but there should at least be some degree of accountablility and reason from the police side as well."

I think if such seminars were a cultural norm they would include basic rights and responsibilities of both citizens and police officers (similar to the link in the article).  If it were a cultural norm that everyone received this information, officers would be less likely to presume and exploit the ignorance of the citizenry.  Right now they pretty much count on it.

It is interesting to me the citizens are being given tips on how to deal with the police. First, if I am not mistaken they are our employees and as such should not engage in any behavior we don't approve of. The problem is they don't fear the community properly. If the police knew that disrespectful or rude behavior would instantly result in termination and forfeiture of pension do you think they wouldn't improve their social skills. I am not advocationg belligerent behavior but I think yes maam no sir is a bit too far. The remedy to this situation is to form independent citizen review boards that have the power to hire and fire police at will and have full investigative powers.

"Any move, any gesture, any resistance could be justification for a beat down or worse."

You mean a gesture like saying "I'm gonna go get my gun and kill this ***," or like trying to run down a cop in your car, as both happened in the Sean Bell case? It seems unreasonable to you that this sort of behavior elicits a violent reaction from the police? What sort of civilization will remain if this sort of behavior is tolerated?

"teaching young men how to behave when they are stopped by police. It feels too much like a Black Code"

This code exists already, and it has nothing to do with race. Act like a thug, get treated like a thug, no matter if you're white, black, purple, or orange. Whites who act like thugs get the same treatment from the cops as blacks. The police have a dangerous and thankless job, in harms way far more often than the rest of us. Expecting the police to tolerate a higher level of hostility or a lower degree of civility from people of a certain color puts the police in danger, aside from being totally racist and unfair.

typhoon,

that would be a great argument if only "thugs" were being killed by police.

Or maybe we need a different approach to law enforcement altogether. Sean Bell is the tip of the iceberg. Martin Lee Anderson is not forgotten, and as recent helicopter videos have made abundantly clear, it's still open season on black males.

Hank...I hear you...you learned not to make that move in front of a police officer, and you lived to tell it.

There's your difference right there.

Typhoon...what denotes 'thug'? I've been treated like a thug more than I care to admit or remember, yet I have never been a thug.

In fact that's what we used to say to each other all the time..."if I'm breaking the law, or otherwise doing something wrong, well then by all means arrest me. If I'm minding my own busines....LEAVE ME ALONE!" Complex? No.

Simple right? Of course it is.

Far too often this has not been the case. And that's what angers people. And...it should anger people. Being upset about it is perfectly normal.

I will say this though, there's been a lot of light shone on the practice of profiling, and lawless cops have had some heat for their misbehavior...things have gotten better, but there's plenty of room yet for improvement.

My uncle, who is black  and is living in a white town, said to his step-son the other day: "You'd better watch out in this town, your a youn black man, and that's enough for a cop to shoot you in this country..." It's true. How sad. So when are we going to do something about it?  I'm afriad to drive cross country with anyone darkskin in my car, 'cause I know my chances for being pulled over  are tripled. I too have been harassed by cops because of my race, but usually it was in an all white town. I'm super light skinned with green eyes. Most people don't know my mom is black unless I tell them, or they see my Africa tatoo on my arm. I guess this sadly gives me a little help when I'm driving cross country, as far as the police are concerned, but I am still quite afraid to drive in the usa, because I am Black and Cuban, and I have a Cuban, African and Mexican flag in my car, plus my plate says "mexico".

IM A 46 YEAR OLD WHITE MALE LIKE THAT MATTERS

IM 5'10" 240 LBS 18 " ARMS LONG HAIR 30 PLUS TATTOOS

THE PROBLEM IS COPS ARE SCARED

IT CAUSE AND AFFECT

ITS ACTION AND REACTION

I GET PULLED OVER THEN SAY STEP OUT OF THE CAR

AS SOON AS I DO PUNKS ON THE RADIO CALLING FOR BACK UP

NEXT THING I KNOW IS THERES THREE OR FOUR SQUAD CARS

NOW IM GETTING SCARED EVERYBODY IS GETTING JUMPY

THEN THEY START ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE WHY ARE

YOU ACTING SO NERVOUS WELL FIRST IM BET OVER THE CAR LIKE A ***

WITH SOME COPS FOREARM IN THE BACK OF MY NECK TWISTING MY ARM

HANDS ON GUNS SEARCHING MY CAR BECAUSE OF THE WAY I LOOK

AND NOW YOU HAVE WOMEN COPS WHAT THE HELL IS SHE GOING TO DO

SHORT OF SHOOTING ME I HATE THE LAW AND ALWAYS WILL

ITS NOT BLACK OR WHITE ITS JUST SCARED PUNK COPS STARTING TROUBLE

Give up this "Why do they pick on black people" crap. Look at the statistics. Most violent crimes are perpetrated by Hispanic and young black males. If it were mostly young white males I am sure that you would see and hear more about "Police Brutality" inflicted on the yong white males. Its the same discussion just a different topic. "Its because I'm black."

Give up this "Why do they pick on black people" crap. Look at the statistics. Most violent crimes are perpetrated by Hispanic and young black males. If it were mostly young white males I am sure that you would see and hear more about "Police Brutality" inflicted on the yong white males. Its the same discussion just a different topic. "Its because I'm black."

I was a white cop in California. I worked in areas with a predominantly black population. One thing I remember is walking up on a car and seeing the hate on the black faces inside that car. I was white and I was a cop, or maybe visa versa. But it often struck me that those people in that car knew nothing about me or my feelings or my background or experiences. They neither knew or cared about what had brought me to that place in my life. Was I a good man? Was I a racist? Was I only enforcing the law? Or was I just stopping them because they were black?

As a friend of mine says, "...flip the script.."

A white cop walks up on a car with all young male occupants. He knows nothing of them. He doesn't know anything about them. He only knows the reason he stopped them. He sees hate registered on every face looking at him. Are they good men? Are they racist? Do they realize they have violated a law or do they feel like they've been "color-coded"? Will they act as good men? Or will they act as the thugs he has seen on TV and in the movies? Will they attempt to harm him and keep him from going home to his family just because he's a white cop?

One wrong word, action, or gesture from either party could result in tragedy. And mostly it comes down to perceptions and judgements based on possibly faulty information on one another.

Cops both black and white are secretly terrified of dealing with black men.  Fear, racism and hatred are the motivating factors.  The  use is deadly force with it's get them before they get me attitude is ok'dbecause of fear.  Media images that feed into this frenzied way of thinking plus the criminal activity of some black men feed this monster until it is now getting out of control.  I have observed how nicely police treat black boys under the age of 7.  Once they reach the teens and preteens if they are in a group tor even alone they are considered trouble.  I am terrified for my 9 year old son.  I am going to train him on how to deal with the police because he is an endangered species. Even if he is doing the right things.