Mark you are so wrong. In a few paragraphs with a decidedly bias view you have overturned the work of hundreds of investigators, law enforcement, lawyers, journalist, jurors and judges not to mention review boards. What makes you the know all end all?
These are people who made bad choices and a terrible tragedy occured. We owe them nothing more than what they are getting. They owe us a debt of their sentence, to make up for their bad and criminal behavior. Do not appolagize for them. Learn from them.
We have peacefull ways to protest that have proven far more effective than the way these people chose to voice their opposition.
Mark, if you want to serve our community our nation do not dismiss the legal system, teach the right from the wrong. That is why God put you on this earth. You my friend are a teacher, teach.
I remember the incident you are refering to. At the time the Mayor was Wilson Goode and Rizzo was the police chief. Also. Mayor Good gave the order to use explosive devices to clear out the Move 9 which resulted in the destruction of a whole city block, where Black people resided. However, I do agree with you on the miscarriage of justice and your remarks concerning Rizzo. They railroaded the Move 9 because they needed somone to take the fall for the killing of a police officer. Heaven forbid that the truth be told and we find out that officer was killed by his own trigger happy police comrades. Reguardless of who killed the police officer, the members of Move9 have paid their debt to society, Incarseration for 100 years is unacceptable, Free Move 9 !
thank you sincerely for reminding us of this atrocity...i remember that day, though i was just a kid...but how do you motivate people to see the errors of human judgement...the legal system within this nation has always been skewed...it's as if living a lie and saying its truth is the AMERICAN way. Free the MOVE 9, and the countless others who are locked away in our nation's prisons on fabricated charges...thanks again.
I remember that day very clearly; it happened in the morning and I remember watching it on the news before I went to school. Just to keep our facts straight; Rizzo was the mayor when this incident occurred. Wilson Goode was the mayor when another Move complex was bomed years later by police. I believe that incarceration was approriate at the time for all members of the Group. However,I agree that the sentence now is excessive.
The zeitgeist is no longer concerned about the fate of those whom have been convicted. It is politically untenable. (Remember Mike Dukakis). Expend your efforts on issues that will reach a broader base.
Here's a clue, don't join any movement that is concerned about a group that has a number following its name. Also, don't waste your time on Mumia or Peltier. Consider them as a sacrifice to the cause.
I not that you somehow left out the other injured officers (seven police, five firefighters) in your discussion of what they'd done. They were convicted of third-degree murder, where the intent is to harm, rather than kill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Degrees_of_murder_in_the_United_States) which, given that they were shooting at the police is a rather generous reading of the facts. And to Folic Pollen, the firebombing was illegal (and wrong) and ruled as such, but it followed this event and, to a certain extent, explained by it. If the first time you try to evict someone they respond by shooting people, the next time, you're going to try a different tact. The police were wrong to do so, but it's not relevant to the question of how the 'MOVE 9' acted on that day, or whether they have paid their debt to society. The parole board ruled that they haven't and given my, admittedly limitted, understanding of this case, it seems like they made the right choice.
so "goknights", i guess you have all the solutions...well to many of "our" people have sat by and allowed others to treat us like their personal property and caged animals. you would tell us that it's ok for these people to remain in prison even if they didnt commit the murder?
no justice, no peace. words to live and die by! time and time again we are shown that the american dream is not for us. the american way is the wrong road for us to venture down. but here we sit, hoping, wishing and preying for an equal playing ground. i read these blogs and i am mostly disgusted by the thoughts of my fellow man! when will we learn people? it is a dog eat dog world! fugde this crooked judicial system and fudge the police. free the MOVE9 and every other black person wrongfully imprisoned... by that i mean every black person in prison!
Dr. Hill:
I have been observing your articles and your positions over time. I now call you the "Cherry picking professor" and here is why. Your position as an "abstract" casual observer of the events going on in Philadelphia today (2008) afford you the opportunity to make note of all of the problems and challenges that Black people in that city face but choose to pursue those issues which are most comfortable with your ideology.
After all you are a "Champion of Justice" while "We should spare no expense for the freedom and liberty for all"!!!!
But wait. Philadelphia!!!!!!
You all have an out of control homicide rate which disproportionately impacts the Black community. How many families of those who are dead have seen JUSTICE? Are the killers of their loved ones receiving their day with the judge and jury or are they still walking the streets?
You see Dr. Hill - let me give you a hint on my "agenda". I realize that you and others are "populists". I, a so called Black Conservative am not going to be able to "out popularize you". You know the "pulse of the Black community" - or more accurately - that which can get Black folks riled up.
Thus my strategy is to make a list of all that ails our community and then make note of that which YOU ALL choose to focus on. I then make an appeal to the Black community to stack rank those issues which are important to them and thus compare their list to YOUR LIST.
Indeed Dr. Hill SOMEONE needs to speak up for the MOVE 9 and also your mentor - Mumia "Killa Mu" Jamal. As a free agent you are allowed to carry their torch. But as you seek to prevent that ant who is crossing the road from getting hit by a car - there is a heard of valuable cattle (young Black folks) who are being made into road kill. There will be no activist parade from you - as their KILLERS are not a political and ideological target for you. So they die without having any particular value as defined by those who have killed them.
You see Dr. Hill - the police and "the system" is your target. Let one cop kill a Black man an you are "on it". How do you reconcile the notions of the 'QUALITY" of the killer/purveyor of harm to Black folks (Police, Justice system, etc) with the "QUANTITY" of harm that stems from Black Killa Thugs that are terrorizing the streets of Philadelphia and other places Dr. Hill? Aren't you abstract to the real threat to our people?
I am building a video archive evaluation and future publishing in some form. I am making note of Black people who mention the word "terrorized", "threatened", "in fear of my life" and associated words. I am making note of WHO they are talking about when they make such a comment.
Dr. Hill do you figure that "The Police" are the most frequent threat that is mentioned?
Look around you Dr. Hill - there are many, many, many more SUBSTANTIVE issues that you need to be talking about which, if fixed, would mean much more to Black folks than the release of the Move 9 or Mumia "Killa" Mu from prison.
Also shot by MOVE on that day were:
Lieutenant William H. Krause (gunshot wounds to the abdomen and right arm)
Officer Thomas Hesson (gunshot wounds to the chest)
Officer Charles Stewart (gunshot wounds to the right shoulder, leg, and head
Officer Harry Mackel (bullet shots to the buttocks)
Officers Giest and Hurst (smoke inhalation)
Wounded Firefighters
John Walsh (bullet wounds to neck and head)
Robert Snead (shotgun pellet wounds to the face)
Dennis O'Neil (shotgun pellet wounds to the left arm)
Robert Lentine (shotgun pellet wounds to the face)
Two other firefighters sustained minor injuries
Whether the MOVE 9 cult members should be released, I'll leave open for debate. However, it's pretty obvious that Dr. Hill has no interest in getting at the truth.
Several other firefighters and police officers were also shot in the same confrontation that Officer Ramp was killed. Does Dr. Hill actually believe they were all shot by "friendly" fire? Why leave out that crucial part of the case in this "article".
MOVE is violent cult that keeps it's children intentionally illiterate and marries their girls when then reach puberty around the age of 12.
For an alternative perspective On MOVE by former supporter Tony Allen, check this: http://antimove.blogspot.com
Can somebody...anybody..."drydock" maybe...explain to me why a police officer's life has more value that any other human being that has been dealt the ever present cards of perpetual injustice in this country? Do you know the history of move beyond what a jaded news story or a clearly biased Mike Smirconish has to offer to this scenario? Seriously. May we take the gloves off for a second and rethink from a stand point of critical thinking? First, ALL LIFE HAS VALUE. A police officers life is NOT more important than yours or mine. Why can he kill me and face no music and I defend myself and kill him and I get the death penalty. Is his blood somehow blessed by Jesus and so his life is more valuable than mine?
Lots of innocent people found tragedy with reagrd to the MOVE fiasco and the police--particularly Frank Rizzo-- were currupt, prejudiced and yes! (gasp) RACIST. You want proof don't you? Look up Frank Rizzo in the dictionary and his picture is next to Racist Pig (pun intended).
You know what really grinds my gears? When people get on their holy soap boxes and rant about the police and justice systems needing defense from their perpetual flubs, which, unfortunately effect and affect folks of color more than white folk. It makes me want to shake the hot mess out of folk. Maybe if we get the brain cells to rattle a bit, some of ya'all will figure out that IF racism is alive and well today, best believe it was a rabid rotweiler in 1978. If the justice system is more than willing to put black folk in jail by any means necessary, for any reason they can cook up in the 2000's --Genarlow Wilson put in jail for receiving a professional; Jenna 6 put in jail for for defending themselves against white folk; etcetera, etcetera. Pease don't be foolish enough to believe it didn't go on 90 fold when MOVE were on trail. Cops kill innocent people every single day--Do you remember Sean Bell? Geesh.
There are thousands of classic cases of of unfair treatment for folks of color swirling in the current and past judicial system. But that's not my point. My point is, until somebody can explain to me why we get all up in arms about Black folk getting out of jail or being put in jail disproportionately more than folks with clearer complexions, particularly if it's a cop, you can not possibly argue to defend said system.
Marc, when you intentionally distort facts it undermines the credibility of your entire argument. Officer Ramp was shot at a downward angle because there was a bunker on the roof. Remember the fire? The fire was started by - God this was stupid - the police attempt to blow up the rooftop bunker. The rooftop bunker was built of railroad ties and was virtually impregnable to small arms fire.
While I appreciate the *intent* of law enforcement and its related systems, the emergence of multiple overturned sentences -- largely involving minorities -- will always lead me to second guess legal gestures.
How will this nation trust its "legal system" (a la goknights) with its longstanding evidence of unclear targets, ambiguously defined offenses, questionable policing strategies, and biased context? I sense that this nation is just now moving towards more accountability and assessing its past with new lenses.
To note, these lenses should incorporate the tragedy of death and displacement. But any reviewer should be able to assess the event without the strong-handed guidance of persons, agencies, or organizations involved.
Let's work towards improving the legal system in a way that won't require our nation to review and release hundreds of possible mis-incarcerated persons; a way that no longer brings question to the terms "justice," "fairness," and even "criminal."
What the hell does MOVE have to do with Obama? Your a racist retard
