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Posted Friday, August 01, 2008 3:20 PM

Defending Obama

hillm

This "defending Obama" stuff is getting quite old…

As someone who is highly skeptical and critical of the Obama campaign, I am truly annoyed by the number of times per week that I’m forced to defend him from ridiculous Right wing attacks. This time around, Senator Obama is being forced to respond to rapper Ludacris’ recent song about the upcoming election. But I digress…

True to form, conservative pundits are feigning indignation at the release of Ludacris’ lyrics. As always, with regard to hip-hop, their reactions are overblown and disingenuous. Anyone remotely familiar with hip-hop rhetoric understands that Ludacris’ request for a presidential pardon and desire to "paint the White House black" was intended to be playful and hyperbolic. His remarks about Hillary being irrelevant and John McCain being old may have been harsh, but you could scarcely find anyone on either side of the aisle who questions their accuracy.

Besides, wasn’t it just last week that we were told to "lighten up"

about that New Yorker cover?

While Ludacris’ use of the "B-Word" to describe Hillary Clinton is inexcusable, it is inexplicable why these same critics aren’t angered when their conservative peers use the same language to describe the New York Senator. In fact, one of the most popular clips on the Internet in late 2007 featured an older white woman asking Senator McCain "how "do we beat the ***?’" Although McCain indicated that he respected Senator Clinton --after enjoying a good laugh-- he demonstrated none of the moral outrage and public posturing being requested of Barack Obama.

Although no one contests the fact that they barely know each other, conservative pundits are also demanding that Obama "distance himself"

from Ludacris. The idea of treating every celebrity supporter as an official surrogate sets us on a ridiculously slippery slope. Does this mean that we have to hold John McCain accountable for all the lyrics of ABBA, his self-described "favorite groups"? Does this mean that George W. Bush must renounce the behavior of Brittney Spears, who offered her unequivocal support after 9/11? It’s safe to say that such matters will never be high on their press secretaries’ to-do list.

Unfortunately, Senator Obama is well aware of this absurd double standard, but has elected to publicly censure Luda out of political expediency. By dissing the rapper (and, by proxy, hip-hop culture) in public, Obama can allay the anxieties of White voters who still question whether or not Obama "shares their values." More sadly, like the Bill Clinton-Sister Souljah controversy in 1992, Obama can remind White voters that he’s not scared to put Black people in their place.

Ironically, if he wins the election, Obama just may have Ludacris to thank.

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Member Comments

Posted By: dehillman (August 1, 2008 at 4:42 PM)

Im so with you brother. I was just talking to my moms about the same thing. Does anyone ask McCain about anything any cot damn white musician says. Its absurd and like you i dont get why he even bothered to answer. like you im weary of thinking of how many different things he has to renounce and denounce. First is was his preached because he had been there for 20 years..... now he has to defend himself against a Luda mix tape song that he could have recorded in his car? it so silly that it boggles the ming. Last week he was an elitist from Harvard (since when was smart and accomplished a negative?????) now hes a 50 year old man having to denounce rap lyrics. i hope people realize that the whole world watches this and we are just digging, digging, digging our way into the idiots of the world. its embarrassing. Truly


Posted By: dehillman (August 1, 2008 at 4:45 PM)

Couldnt let that sloppy post stay there.

Im so with you brother. I was just talking to my moms about the same thing. Does anyone ask McCain about anything any cot damn white musician says? Its absurd and like you i dont get why he even bothered to answer. like you im weary of thinking of how many different things he has to renounce and denounce. First is was his preacher because he had been there for 20 years..... now he has to defend himself against a Luda mix tape song that he could have recorded in his car? its so silly that it boggles the mind. Last week he was an elitist from Harvard (since when was smart and accomplished a negative?????) now hes a 50 year old man having to denounce rap lyrics. i hope people realize that the whole world watches this and we are just digging, digging, digging our way into the idiots of the world. its embarrassing. Truly


Posted By: wwc (August 1, 2008 at 9:27 PM)

I understand and most African Americans do also, but leads me back to yesterday, this is why the race card could be played but won't......McCain never gets asked about any of the same things, that the Grand OLD party tries to attach to Barack. For example:

Isn't Hagee a radical association

Isn't cindy an elitist, she did drop 750K in one month

Isn't McCain unpatriotic? He did say he didn't love this country until he was deprived of it...

The list goes on and on......the good news is, Barack is a VERY intelligent brother, he told us all, this is what GOP strategy always is, same game, different name. They just replace it every 4 years and continue doing it.....

Finally, unfortunately for the Hannity's of the world, his obession with Barack has turned off a lot of people because of the true issues like the economy....errrr MENTAL recession


Posted By: mod (August 1, 2008 at 10:47 PM)

Marc, this is how the political game is played, so what do you expect? Any democrat is going to have to defend themselves from attacks by the right.


Posted By: JB2008 (August 2, 2008 at 1:18 AM)

As a black republican. I agree that the GOP recycles "the same game, different name" strategy in the Presidential Elections.  However, this a historical presidential election that will go down in history, regardless of who wins.

As an Obamaican, the right is going to through the kitchen sink at him.  The true lies with how Sen.  Obama responds.


Posted By: gillyrosh (August 2, 2008 at 10:38 AM)

As someone who is highly skeptical and critical of the Obama campaign, I am truly annoyed by the number of times per week that I’m forced to defend him from ridiculous Right wing attacks.

Welcome to my world, Mark. Welcome to my world.


Posted By: blessinggirl (August 2, 2008 at 12:46 PM)

Oh, please!  There are quite a few of us who "distance ourselves" from ludicrous rap and what you call hip hop culture who are black and risked our lives so these folks could call themselves artists.  Please.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM)

I have read Obama's books, I like him.  I am a long time conservative and I disagree strongly with social welfare programs, I don't think that they work long term.  All that being said, I was moving towrads voting Democrat for the first time.  

Then he doesn't cover his heart during the National Anthem, then the whole lapel pin thing, then he blows off the troops during an ill advised trip to the middle east.....Now he has "refurbished" his plane, and removed the American Flag........

He took our flag down.

Whatever crimes this country has commited, and they are few by comparison.  If you wish to lead a nation, any nation, you do not take down the flag.

No patriot can vote for this man.


Posted By: snapdiva (August 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM)

Sometimes one just has to stop being on the defensive....

We need to move AWAY  from this strategy...

Go proactive-- overwhelm the airways with a POSITIVE campaign....

Reacting to the foolishness just helps it to perpetuate the drama....

Reframe, rethink -- WE NEED TO SET THE AGENDA not spend so much energy being  reactive to mindless spin.


Posted By: markh22 (August 2, 2008 at 3:48 PM)

for jb2008 tell me what in the HELLis a BLACK REPUBLICAN. are their Black Democrats or are they just democrats


Posted By: GIG33 (August 2, 2008 at 4:19 PM)

To: justawhiteman,

Of all the phony excuses you listed in your post, you failed to list the true one. HE IS BLACK.

Some day this world will stright up, when, is anyone guess. From a Viet Nam Vet of 36 months. Oh! I forgot to mention, I do not wear a lapel flag pin.


Posted By: FREEAMERICAN (August 2, 2008 at 4:23 PM)

Forget stupid Rap lyrics.  Who cares??  What I do care about is why hasn't anyone seen this man for who he is.  To make myself VERY CLEAR I do not mean his white/black roots. I'm talking about a man who was under a Rev. with clear views on what he thinks about the "whites"  and AMERICA.  In my faith we have rituals not a mouthpiece spewing hatred. Religious forums are to spread the word of God not to spread hate. Do that on your own time.  It is America after all, free speech and beliefs. For most it seems small and I'm not sure why it isn't at the front of most peoples minds.  How can anyone stand behind this guy if he won't cover his heart for the National Anthem.  It's not just a THING they do in sports to waste some time. It actually means something. How he can not see the WOUNDED troops on his visit? I'll tell ya why, because they wouldn't allow cameras and his staff in.  What he can't go anywhere without cameras? How he can be a "Christian", yet he will stand with the Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction. How dare that man say that!!! I guess it is convenient how people forget 911. He states he isn't Muslim and he is now a Christian but I for one do not belive that. Why is he forever apologizing on behalf of the United States? He apologizes because when the Europeans come over here we don't know Spanish. SO... Last I checked we spoke ENGLISH in this country. That our children SHOULD learn to speak Spanish because the illegal immigrants learn to speak English.  Since when do they do that? No, the illegal immigrants need to learn how to speak English not the other way around. If he is so damn emabarassed by this country, then why run for Presidancy. His wife included, She is only now proud of this country because her husband is running. Now your proud, she wouldn't have had that ivy league education if men and woman haven't died for her RIGHT as an American woman to go to school. As a woman in a lot of countries, they aren't allowed to get an education. In closing, to be a man/woman and lead a nation, one should have honor, pride and conviction for his/her country. Not forever to be apologizing or embarrased by it. USA is not perfect and never has been but I would think overall the love of this great nation should be paramount to anyone wanting to lead it. Forget hollywood, or the politically correct people, they only want to be a part of "history" to tell their children or grandkids, I voted for that guy. Big deal!!  How come all I read is black voters, white voters, why the race thing, who cares what color leads a nation. I care about the character of the person leading a nation. He FEELS for terrorists. Why?  Does he honestly think sitting down with these people is going to change their minds. How many times does it have tol be said that if your NOT a Muslim then your not one of them and therefore you should be killed.  I didn't make this up their devil book did. Their book is filled with HATRED and as we all where there is hatred there is violence. Terrorists are not uneducated poor people as he seems to think. Osama isn't poor, nor were the ones who carried out the tragedies on 911. I guess you can see a pattern here and I just can't get past the idea of his character and since I am a part of, "We the pople", I will not be voting for him come this election even though I am a Dem.


Posted By: FREEAMERICAN (August 2, 2008 at 4:26 PM)

Forget stupid Rap lyrics.  Who cares??  What I do care about is why hasn't anyone seen this man for who he is.  To make myself VERY CLEAR I do not mean his white/black roots. I'm talking about a man who was under a Rev. with clear views on what he thinks about the "whites"  and AMERICA.  In my faith we have rituals not a mouthpiece spewing hatred. Religious forums are to spread the word of God not to spread hate. Do that on your own time.  It is America after all, free speech and beliefs. For most it seems small and I'm not sure why it isn't at the front of most peoples minds.  How can anyone stand behind this guy if he won't cover his heart for the National Anthem.  It's not just a THING they do in sports to waste some time. It actually means something. How he can not see the WOUNDED troops on his visit? I'll tell ya why, because they wouldn't allow cameras and his staff in.  What he can't go anywhere without cameras? How he can be a "Christian", yet he will stand with the Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction. How dare that man say that!!! I guess it is convenient how people forget 911. He states he isn't Muslim and he is now a Christian but I for one do not belive that. Why is he forever apologizing on behalf of the United States? He apologizes because when the Europeans come over here we don't know Spanish. SO... Last I checked we spoke ENGLISH in this country. That our children SHOULD learn to speak Spanish because the illegal immigrants learn to speak English.  Since when do they do that? No, the illegal immigrants need to learn how to speak English not the other way around. If he is so damn emabarassed by this country, then why run for Presidancy. His wife included, She is only now proud of this country because her husband is running. Now your proud, she wouldn't have had that ivy league education if men and woman haven't died for her RIGHT as an American woman to go to school. As a woman in a lot of countries, they aren't allowed to get an education. In closing, to be a man/woman and lead a nation, one should have honor, pride and conviction for his/her country. Not forever to be apologizing or embarrased by it. USA is not perfect and never has been but I would think overall the love of this great nation should be paramount to anyone wanting to lead it. Forget hollywood, or the politically correct people, they only want to be a part of "history" to tell their children or grandkids, I voted for that guy. Big deal!!  How come all I read is black voters, white voters, why the race thing, who cares what color leads a nation. I care about the character of the person leading a nation. He FEELS for terrorists. Why?  Does he honestly think sitting down with these people is going to change their minds. How many times does it have tol be said that if your NOT a Muslim then your not one of them and therefore you should be killed.  I didn't make this up their devil book did. Their book is filled with HATRED and as we all where there is hatred there is violence. Terrorists are not uneducated poor people as he seems to think. Osama isn't poor, nor were the ones who carried out the tragedies on 911. I guess you can see a pattern here and I just can't get past the idea of his character and since I am a part of, "We the pople", I will not be voting for him come this election even though I am a Dem.


Posted By: bw2893 (August 2, 2008 at 4:43 PM)

"Anyone remotely familiar with hip-hop rhetoric understands that Ludacris’ request for a presidential pardon and desire to "paint the White House black" was intended to be playful and hyperbolic." M. Hill

Really? Then what about Don Imus' comments about the Rutgers basketball team? Were those then intended to be playful and "hyperbolic?" Anyone who knows anything about talk radio knows that comments like his are meant to be playful and hyperbolic.

Do you sense the hypocricy here? Of course, what Ludacris says can't be used to pin Obama on the wall. After all, Obama hasn't attended Ludacris concerts for twenty years,  wasn't married by him, or wrote a book after one of his songs.  If Ludacris did say that whether in a song or not, and on the surface it being absolutley racist and horrible to say the least, then yes, Obama should have to answer questions regarding that. Because since Obama first started his campaign he hasn't ever forgotten to exploit the fact that he is the first black man to run for office. Why do the two connect? Becuase when Imus said what he said, it seemed like every white man took upon him or herself a chip on their shoulder that said "white racist", which of course, isn't true.

Just becuase Ludacris is a rapper, doesn't mean his racist comments should be brushed off as "playful and hyperbolic." Unless you intend to infuse that logic within all professions that have the capability of being playful and hyperbolic. I don't care about Don Imus and I thought his comments were way out of line, but so are Ludacris's. They aren't funny or hyperbolic, they're racist and offensive, and if Obama then shouldn't have to deal with the comments, then why are white people today still dealing with slave reperation talk from oh,.. the NAACP for example?

It's either all or nothing, so please, stop the hypocricy.


Posted By: bw2893 (August 2, 2008 at 4:52 PM)

I have been reading people posting their outrage of why McCain hasn't had to answer questions coming from these types of things like white artists. My answer is a qestion: how many white artists out there are spewing hatred from their mouths like Ludacris spews from his? McCain doesn't talk about things like that because there isn't anything out there for him to talk about!! What, the KKK? Sorry, that deosn't apply. People don't buy their CD's and listen to their garbage on the radio. Besides, if the KKK is who you're reffering to, then the black panther's, NAACP, etc. are all in the mix as well. Obama would be having to answer questions all day long if that were the case.

I don't like McCain at all, but there is something in America much more prevelant than racism today, it's called hypocricy.


Posted By: nyjax28 (August 2, 2008 at 4:59 PM)

Why should we ever expect a politician to renounce and denounce anyone that is not part of their staff?  Ludacris is an entertainer that make money from his gifted us of language combined with music.  What's next?  Do we start requiring that every public official make their Netflix and iTunes accounts public record and then make them provided a detailed response for everytime they rented the Sopranos, Weeds, and Lost.? Or make note of why the own the Rolling Stones, Prince, and Jay-Z.  When is the election going to be about social, political and economic issues?  Are people seriously concerned about whether or not someone puts their hand over their heart during the pledge of allegiance or National Anthem?  People are clearly confusing the ritual with what it symbolizes.  The thing that scares me the most is that so many people are walking around with blinders and the politicians and various heads of state holding the reigns.  At the end of the day, they don't have anything in common with 99% of the population.  Whoever invents the voting machine that tests your knowledge before you can cast a vote will be my hero.


Posted By: student/teacher (August 2, 2008 at 5:44 PM)

Just to put my two cents in......

I don't think Obama should have to defend himself against comments made by a famous rapper, but since he is, how about this.  Why doesn't someone drag McCain over the coals for making nice with the right wing "conservative christian" nutjobs who he has publicly DENOUNCED in the past?  Now I was willing to ignore this behavior in McCain because I atributed it to the evils of running for president.  I've liked McCain for a long time (would never vote for him because of his policy) but I think he's a decent man and would never intentionally drag the country down the disease infested rathole that our current president has put us in.  HOWEVER if people are going to throw a fit over Obama supposedly being in cohorts with extremist left wing commies, as I've seen it state elswhere, then I think its only fair that McCain get called out for his extremist right wing associates.  Come on Jon Stewart, I know he's a friend of the show, but really.


Posted By: goknights (August 2, 2008 at 6:00 PM)

When a man such as Senator Obama enters the national political stage with the smallest amount of on the job training (174 actual days at work) tells you he wants your vote for President. Is it not justified and prudent to review his past associations. It truly is the only thing you can judge him on due to his lack of national expieriance. I know Mr. Hill will argue otherwise but he has no foundation to argue from. Be honest and review his accomplishments. I want all americans of all races to enjoy the political opportunities this great country affords it's citizens. But please do not be blinded by the facts. Senator Obama will have his chance, but he needs more expieriance and more understanding of the basic economic principles that keep this country moving forwaqrd.


Posted By: kdub66 (August 2, 2008 at 6:14 PM)

I'm glad Oboma can put black people in their place because we as whites can't- or we're racist.


Posted By: kdub66 (August 2, 2008 at 6:18 PM)

Oh, and by the way I plan to release a white rap song about painting the white house "whiter" and the only chair I want Oboma in is a wheelchair- paralyzed. It will also say that Jesse Jackson is mentally retarded and Al Sharpton is a ***.


Posted By: JacksonWells (August 2, 2008 at 6:24 PM)

HaHaHaH!!!

What is Black American willing to give up to "put an African American in the White House"?

Since you all have become the Bushites of this election cycle, WHI is apologizing to Native Americans (already have their reparations) more important to the traditions of America than apologizing to Black America for slavery and Jim Crow?

WHI is the rate of n'Obama "evolution" explained away by you all and allowed to completely "re-deFine" the properties of Physics?

WHI is Black America standing up to be BAMBOOZLED, RUN-AMUCK AND LED-ASTRAY by Barry?

W.H.I.


Posted By: DPO1993 (August 2, 2008 at 6:25 PM)

Stop the whining and get over it.  A political campaign is tough going but a cakewalk compared to what Obama or McCain will face as President.  Let the fist fight get bloody.  I want to see what these guys are made of and then I'll know who has what it takes to lead the world.  Neither candidate is especially exciting but they're all we have.  Every aspect of their lives is fair game whether it is age or many years of listening to hate-filled Sunday sermons without raising a protest.  Everything needs to be explained.  Everything should be pulled apart and examined so we all know what we're getting.  Obama is not the first candidate who has had to work at appealing to the broad American public.  He won't be the last.


Posted By: JacksonWells (August 2, 2008 at 6:30 PM)

Also, WHI do you all excuse a "black" man (who is running for president of the USA)  for saying the War on Drugs is WORKING?  Or better yet, HOW do you excuse it?

W.H.I.


Posted By: nobody wins (August 2, 2008 at 7:41 PM)

It doesn't matter who gets elected, nothing is going to change.  All of them tell you the $#@! you want to hear and it all changes once they're in office.  All I can say is that there has been the same type of president in office for the last couple hundred years...old and white.  I'm ready to try something new............and this comes from a white dude.


Posted By: just saying (August 2, 2008 at 8:43 PM)

In response to "FreeAmerican" I don't cover my heart either.  Frankly, just because I was born and naturalized in America, I don't feel that I owe any pledge of allegiance to America whom has always been so disparaging to many minority races.  My true allegiance is "Lift Every Voice and Sing".  I pay homage to all of the slaves and trailblazers who died for the injustices that have been done to my people.  Most of all, I honor Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior who keeps me sane through all of the inequality that is imposed by those "Pledge of Allegiance People".


Posted By: Bobjective (August 2, 2008 at 9:47 PM)

Kdub66 it is statements like what you posted that will get you hurt.  If I were you, I would keep statements like that to myself.  Ignorance is a true sign of an uneducated idiot.  Try obtaining some knowledge and less blogging.  I'm sure your racist upbringing will allow that!


Posted By: reinadelaz (August 2, 2008 at 10:53 PM)

BOBJECTIVE - Your response to KDUB66 shows your willingness to perpetuate his attitude. To thise who are still ranting about muslims and Reverend Wright and lapel pins and patriotism - I challenge you to read Senator Obama's books and ask yourself if you are a jingoist. I agree that Senator Obama should stop reacting to every piece of mud Senator McCain tries to throw. He has a lot more to offer our nation than Senator McCain does and should be telling us what that is.


Posted By: beachgirl75 (August 2, 2008 at 11:28 PM)

I am not concerned about Ludacris'  music. Just because an artist sings about a candidate, it doesn't mean that the candidate supports what the artist is saying. It's called free speech. I know that Obama has had some missteps in his campaign, but I am still supporting him, nonetheless.

I have heard that Bush administration was been the worst we have had since Herbert Hoover was in office .For those of you who can't remember or don't know who Hoover was, well he was the president during the Great Depression. In the last eight years, this administration has put more money in the pockets of the extreme wealthy and has let the poor go begging. This country has been fighting an illegal, immoral war for nearly seven years. President Bush should have been impreached. The GOP continues to mock Obama since that's all they've got. John McCain is really John McSame. So if you are rich and enjoying life now, MccSame will be sure to keep the party going for you people

I have read Sen. Obama's book, "The Audacity of Hope" and I think if others would read his word's, think and form a real opinion, not just what the media tells you to think, you might walk away with a different opinion.

I am a middle-age white woman, probably not a typical Obama supporter,but hopefully, there's a lot more out there just like me

The pundits are saying the race is Obama's to win. I hope so. But if he does lose, I would blame racism as the cause. We are a global community now. The majority of people in the world are people of color. So, why can't someone who is African-American become president.

I am planning to vote for Obama in Nov, I think that he would be great leader and it would be a tremendous boost for the Black community.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 2, 2008 at 11:34 PM)

GIG33

I'm Active duty 17 years and counting.  I don't wear a lapel pin either, mostly cause I wear BDU's instead of a suit.  Making this about race demeans you sir.

Mr. Obama is a fine candidate who is making too many mistakes and about whom there are too many questions.

I will never vote for a candidate who takes the flag down.  How can you?  A Vet.?


Posted By: beachgirl75 (August 2, 2008 at 11:40 PM)

I am not concerned about Ludacris'  music. Just because an artist sings about a candidate, it doesn't mean that the candidate supports what the artist is saying. It's called free speech. I know that Obama has had some missteps in his campaign, but I am still supporting him, nonetheless.

I have heard that Bush administration was been the worst we have had since Herbert Hoover was in office .For those of you who can't remember or don't know who Hoover was, well he was the president during the Great Depression. In the last eight years, this administration has put more money in the pockets of the extreme wealthy and has let the poor go begging. This country has been fighting an illegal, immoral war for nearly seven years. President Bush should have been impreached. The GOP continues to mock Obama since that's all they've got. John McCain is really John McSame. So if you are rich and enjoying life now, MccSame will be sure to keep the party going for you people

I have read Sen. Obama's book, "The Audacity of Hope" and I think if others would read his word's, think and form a real opinion, not just what the media tells you to think, you might walk away with a different opinion.

I am a middle-age white woman, probably not a typical Obama supporter,but hopefully, there's a lot more out there just like me

The pundits are saying the race is Obama's to win. I hope so. But if he does lose, I would blame racism as the cause. We are a global community now. The majority of people in the world are people of color. So, why can't someone who is African-American become president.

I am planning to vote for Obama in Nov, I think that he would be great leader and it would be a tremendous boost for the Black community.


Posted By: cmdr358 (August 3, 2008 at 1:30 AM)

"Posted By: markh22 (August 2, 2008 at 3:48 PM)

for jb2008 tell me what in the HELLis a BLACK REPUBLICAN. are their Black Democrats or are they just democrats"

I direct you to cbcfnc.com- home of the Congressional Black Caucus (originally the Democratic Select Committee) this is an organization of Black Democrats- no whites allowed. So why not a Black Republican if the Republican in question chooses to identify himself that way.

Next question- yes in the second row..............


Posted By: regdawgformerusmc (August 3, 2008 at 2:33 AM)

As a Conservative & as a Born Again Christian I do find Ludacris lyrics offensive, but that is his right to rap what is on his mind.  The lyrics that is on this particular track was down (even though I disagree with his opinion about W).  I personally do not demand that Obama distant himself from Luda, but what was so funny how Obama threw Luda under tha bus (as Obama done to his friends so many times).  


Posted By: alegna (August 3, 2008 at 8:37 AM)

Thank you justawhiteguy, freeamerican, bw2893, kdub166, for reminding me of where we really are. At times I live in a bubble. I think and start to believe that we have finally moved to a place where we can exist as human beings, move pass the myth of race, and really examine OUR shared histories. But reading posts like yours reminds me that we aren't there yet. That too many of US (All of US) have no real knowledge of this shared history and how it has us where we are and its impact on us daily. We live in a complicated country. A country that was created by the constant fight for the ideals held in a document we all hold dear--The Constitution. The abuse, the violence against all groups considered other in this country has been long. Violations against the concepts of freedom and inequality did NOT end with slavery, did NOT end with the Civil War, did NOT end with the Great Migration, did not end with with the 86 years of race riots where whites burned down black neighborhoods from 1866-1951, did NOT end with the Civil Rights movement, did NOT end in the seventies, did NOT end during the Reagan error (pun intended),...for some reason I thought it ended in this new milleminum. I thought that we were becoming fully and trully WE THE (American) PEOPLE. I thought we the stepkids of this country, who are as crucial, as important to, as varied as any group of people in the creation of this country, where finally be included and acknowledged as full parts of WE THE PEOPLE. I thought those who consider themselves to be the parents of this country had got the lab results and recognized--oh, yeah we are all family truly, and completely. Afterall,  IT WAS A MULTIETHNIC MOVEMENT that brought us this to this point. For some reason, I thought we had arrived.

Attrocities happen all over the world to all peoples. But it the recognition and respect given to the wrong of those attrocities among the people who share the pain of those moments  that allows people to move forward. People have to stop minimizing our shared, painful history of violence, injustice, and inequality. In part it is the pain of those events that has forced us to move closer to realizing the beauty and truth inherent in the Constitution. We as a nation should have respect for this history and be equally saddened by it and equally determined to do better because of it.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 3, 2008 at 9:32 AM)

alegna

lumping us together is part of OUR problem.  Read the posts again and I'd ask that you not mention me in the same reference with kdub66 again.


Posted By: alegna (August 3, 2008 at 10:57 AM)

Justawhiteguy,

I reread your posts again. You may object to being grouped with the views of kdub166 but your words as posted in my mind placed you together. I don't care who you vote for in the election. That is your right and duty as a citizen. I found your objections to be shallow, in the same way that I see others who seek to use phony excuses for their objections to Obama because they don't want to admit to any racist or lingering race conscious notions.  Your list is utterly ridiculous, and I thought a veiled attempt to hide such notions.

Perhaps I was wrong and you worry more about the  inaccurate and petty jabs placed on him than examining and perhaps disagreeing with his politics. In my mind this still doesn't move you to any better company.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM)

Alegna

I've read all of Obama's books, I've followed his campaign closely, I've read and listened to his and his wifes speeches.  I have lashed out against many of the disgusting right wing accusations.  I have made an educated judgement.

You judged me on a 13 line BLOG.  You called me a racist when you suggest that my judgement is based on his color.  Look in the mirror my friend.

You and your race are not the only victems of our shared history.


Posted By: alegna (August 3, 2008 at 12:03 PM)

My posts were not sparked by the race of the posters but by the ideas presented by this group of posters. I have no idea the race of the posters and it doesn't really matter. I don't make decisions about people based on race, the decision to wear lapel pins, or any other thing that could be easily misjudged and misinterpreted and isn't really relevant to anything.

Perhaps I touched a nerve. We definitiely all need to look deeply in the mirrors.  Our painful history is definitely something we ALL share.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 3, 2008 at 12:59 PM)

Alegna

Thank you.  I think we still disagree, but that is ok.

Something to be considered is all of our tendancy to jump to conclusions.

I have re-read a bit and realized that initially I confused your comments with Gig33.

Double edged sword of this forum.  Free to speak your mind but faceless and nameless.

I did assume you knew I was a white guy.


Posted By: Dantresomi (August 3, 2008 at 2:14 PM)

"Whatever crimes this country has commited, and they are few by comparison. "

comparison to whom?

-------------

The only  thing I am mad about is that everyone calls it a freestyle. It's NOT a freestyle.

Luda was being Luda. who cares?


Posted By: Patriot (August 3, 2008 at 2:58 PM)

Why does almost every black american automaticly like this guy? He is a racist muslim that won't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. Please open your eyes fellow Americans, he would be a 4 year nightmare in the White House. Get over slavery, it's been gone for many years. My Italian grandfather experienced racism when he immigrated to this great country. As long as you use that crutch, you will never overcome. Quit whining, go to college, take advantage of the many social programs offered to minorities (as Obama has), and keep your families together.


Posted By: goknights (August 3, 2008 at 5:43 PM)

In response to "Just Saying" I am sure Jesus Christ would really appreciate the way you feel about the greatest most compasionate country to ever grace man kind. Your total lack of historical knowledge sadens me. You have formed an opinion about this country and hishonored millions of men and woman of all races who have given their lives for this amazing diverse and oh so young and growing country. When you look out over the last 200 years you see ignorance and wrongs corrected either through the ballot box or rebellon or armed conflict. These are supported by people from all walks of life. We are an imperfect people but we are a wonderfull loving people "We the people of the united states of america"


Posted By: Omugabe (August 3, 2008 at 6:51 PM)

Marc

It is ignorant and foolish and downright disingenuous  to suggest that Obama "has elected to publicly censure Luda out of political expediency".

People have become so cynical and brainwashed with the repeated propaganda of the uncouth and narrow-minded, that every action of politicians is seen as act of political expediency.

And so when an upstanding Obama takes his USUAL & DIGNIFIED position, people like yourself proffer your baby talk of political 'expediency'.

I urge you and others of your ilk to research Obama's background.

For starters, the man is an island 'boy'.

Obama was born in Hawaii!

The character of people born in such places is usually a lot more dignified, not as low down as that of mainlanders!

Barack Obama, LIKE YOU, actually believes that Ludicris was being out of order in many respects; because Obama is very conscious of disrespect towards the females in his family and disrespect towards females in general.

There is NOTHING in Obama's life that suggests that he would support calling any female a biatch.

Is Hilary a biatch?  

A lot of Americans will agree that the word was created for Hilary; but Barack is not one of those.

Come to think of it, Marc; even YOU suggested that Ludicris' statement was 'harsh'?

Why not allow that Obama feels as you do, AND EVEN MORE OPPOSITION?

Why accuse Obama of expediency when you yourself is of a similar position?

How absolutely self-hating and self-destructive; but what's new!


Posted By: FREEAMERICAN (August 3, 2008 at 7:52 PM)

TO: PATRIOT

Thank you and Amen....

TO: Alegna

How can you say, "People have to stop minimizing our shared, painful history of violence, injustice, and inequality". Exactly how has slavery effected YOU PERSONALLY.  Was it ignorant, ABSOLUTELY, Should it have happened ABSOLTELY NOT.  But it did, WAY BACK WHEN.  Not every black person in America comes from ancestors who were slaves. Again, it was horrific and I would never minimize anyone’s pain that had to suffer through those times. We still face racism today yes, but, we have to overcome that by pounding education and a helping hand towards our fellow Americans. My ancestors have faced racism when they arrived from Italy and Ireland but I don't live by it. It was THEIR stories and pain not mine. This topic can go on for another hundred years and we still will be facing racism.  It will never go away I'm afraid. Back to OBAMA what a nightmare it will be if he is elected. It's funny but it's mostly the black people who don't care about the hand over the heart during our National Anthem. It scares me that we may elect a President solely based on color. As an American you should be appalled by the comments made by his Rev of 20 years. or by what he states in his books.  Come on, it's not this is being made up. It's from his mouth. So, let's vote for Obama because he is black, but let's not forget he is also WHITE.


Posted By: delta-law@hotmail.com (August 3, 2008 at 9:46 PM)

Professor:  You have regularly and consistently stated thoughtful and accurate analyses of this  "historic" Obama candidacy.   Clearly, you are correct in citing the obvious:  ". . . Obama can remind White voters that he's NOT SCARED to  put  Black people in their place."  [Emphasis supplied].  How much more pathetic can Obama be?  Indeed, it was a sad spectacle to witness Senator Obama in Florida putting the young Black "hecklers" in their place, by derisively letting them know that they had the "option" of voting for someone else or of "running for office yourselves."  In a thousand years, Obama NEVER would have summarily dismissed a group of young White men.  You conclude that "[I]ronically, if he  wins the election, Obama just may have Ludacris to  thank."  I conclude that:  ironically if he LOSES the election, Obama just may have himself to thank.


Posted By: american 1000 (August 4, 2008 at 5:29 AM)

I FIND IT IDIOTIC THAT PEOPLE KEEP REPEATING THAT OBAMA HAS NO EXPERIENCE.

IS IT THAT PEOPLE CANNOT READ, OR IS IT THAT THEY JUST HAVE NOT DONE THEIR RESEARCH!!

LET ME EDUCATE A FEW PEOPLE.  Obama graduated at the top of his law class at Harvard, he was also Editor of the Law Review at Harvard.

After Obama graduated from Harvard he worked as both a community organizer, and as a lawyer in a civil right law firm. Obama also taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago for 10 years.

Obama worked in Illinois as a State Senator for 8 years.  Obama was then elected to the US Senate, where he has worked for 5 years.

Obama has a whole lot of experience, the man has worked his entire life. He has been a lawyer, a University law professor, and Obama has also spent 13 years working for the US government as BOTH a Illinois State Senator for 8 years, and a US Senator for 5 years.

MAY I REMIND PEOPLE THAT BEFORE BILL CLINTON WAS ELECTED AS PRESIDENT HE HAD NEVER SPENT ONE DAY WORKING IN WASHINGTON.  BILL CLINTON KNEW NOTHING ABOUT HOW WASHINGTON WORKED.  BILL CLINTON HAD ONLY WORKED AS A GOVERNOR IN ARKANSAW.

OBAMA ON THE OTHER HAND WORKED BOTH IN HIS STATE OF ILLINOIS AS A STATE SENATOR FOR 8 YEARS, AND THEN OBAMA WENT ON TO WASHINGTON WHERE HE HAS WORKED IN THE U.S. SENATE FOR 5 YEARS NOW.

THE FACT IS OBAMA HAS MORE WASHINGTON EXPERIENCE THAN BILL CLINTON EVER HAD! BILL CLINTON HAD NOT WORKED IN WASHINGTON FOR EVEN ONE DAY WHEN HE WAS ELECTED TO BE PRESIDENT. (SO THE QUESTION I ASK IS WHAT WASHINGTON EXPERIENCE DID BILL CLINTON HAVE--- THE ANSWER IS NONE!!!  BILL CLINTON KNEW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW WASHINGTON WORKED BEFORE HE WAS ELECTED)

** OBAMA ON THE OTHER HAND HAS WASHINGTON EXPERIENCE, HE HAS BEEN THERE FOR 5 YEARS.

OBAMA ALSO SERVED IN THE ILLIONIS SENATE FOR 8 YEARS, BEFORE HE EVEN GOT TO WASHINGTON.

** THE FACT IS OBAMA HAS THE RIGHT EXPERIENCE, AND A GREAT ADVANTAGE BECAUSE HE KNOWS HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS AT BOTH: THE STATE LEVEL, AS WELL AS HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.


Posted By: jerseygirl (August 4, 2008 at 7:16 AM)

I seriously would suggest that Barack stop bringing up the differences and instead focus on things everybody has in common.  Almost all issues are shared by both blacks and whites and so instead of saying how different he is how about reminding voters how much we all have in common.  To be quite truthful, the only ones that thus far have sabbotaged his fun for the WH are his friends and acquaintences, not the republicans.  Barack is not going to get the vote from those that consider race an issue no matter what he says.  Considering how strongly the country is mad at both parties as evidenced by the low approval ratings, he needs to stop with the "change" rhetoric becasue change is often not good.  When Barack begins to roll out his plans they include raising taxes on not just the rich but many businesses that currently are just getting by.  Windfall profit tax has been tried before by Carter and it didn't work . No country did work itself out of a funk by taxing more of its population and constantly increasing social programs.  


Posted By: ch555x (August 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM)

american 1000:

That was a pretty good observation.  There have been a few POTUS who did not have any beltway experience prior to election (Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Clinton, Bush II) .  Enough with the defense already.  You can tell the MSM, haters, GOP, etc. are having a slow news summer thus far...LOL!


Posted By: DivaStudio54 (August 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM)

I didn't think there were other Blacks out there who felt like I did about Obama.  I too, am very skeptical of him and his camp.  I read his first book and came to admire him.  But since he became a serious presidential candidate, I became quite suspect of his actions.  He says what he thinks folks want to hear.  He is one of the slickest politicians I have ever seen.  So what if he is Muslim, even if he isn't?  Isn't freedom of religion one of the rights that attracted scores of immigrants from all over the globe?  Why distance yourself from your minister who was your "spirtual advisor' for many years?  Did he succumb to the pressures of others, at the cost of possibly securing a place in history no other Black man has ever had?  Although his Messian-like following is a bit disturbing to me, folks just need to realize that the promises he is making, are just that ... promises..  It doesn't matter who becomes the next president, no one will be able to quick-fix that has unfurled after 8 years of BUSH!


Posted By: alegna (August 4, 2008 at 1:55 PM)

To freeamerican,

I think you should reread my post. Slavery was not the only injustice committed against people deemed other at various times in our history. I listed in the original post a smidgen of some of the other instances of inequity and violence. Some of which has continued into this new century. We all are by far in a much, much, much better place. But there should be an attitude of reverence, sadness and respect for the past in our discussions of that past. Your responses and need to harp on slavery as if this is the only sin of our great country is ahistorical. In addition, your posts seem to be very emotional and I am not sure we would be able to have a logical exchange of ideas.  


Posted By: geoffjonz67 (August 4, 2008 at 1:56 PM)

Shut the F*&% up already!!! Damn!!!


Posted By: corey79 (August 4, 2008 at 2:09 PM)

Hip Hop is a way of life...

yes many artist are capitolizing on a specific lifestyle (RICK ROSS...allegedly)

but for many, it's what they've experienced, seen and/or goals...

Nelly's TIP DRILL has probably happened to him...

yet we actually let on that they're all misogyny...it's not the case...not for all...

some women are B's...

and a lot of us are N's...

but it's Black America...it's a part of life for most of us...

(remember this...3 Americas: Black, White and America that showed after 9/11)

whenever someone starts to bad mouth hip hop...just tell them to listen..

not to the radio...listen to any and everything...

cuz that's what real hip hop heads do...we know what's real and who's fake...

I had to mention the 3 Americas cuz blacks have no choice but to learn, assimilate, understand white america...they don't have to do the same...they don't have to care...

they don't want to show up at our town hall meeting out of fear and just not giving a flying...well you know the rest...

white people do not have to understand us...why...

until we revolt...we are living in their world...

Obama and McCain have both worked with people and denounced people...

McCain has even denouncec people and then sought their approval...

whether it's political expediency or whatever...

it's POLITICS...

POLITICS means that you have to cater or sway your opinion not to piss off WHITE AMERICA...

listen up white people...

Obama wants to be pres of the USA...not black people...

he's a presidential candidate...not a civil rights leader...

and understand the same black people...

(this is at least what he wants the media to believe...)

McCain doesn't believe half the crap that he says...

you can tell it in his speeches...

they are both saying what they feel is needed to get the vote...

both of them...

they are politicians...they do what politicians do...


Posted By: Patriot (August 4, 2008 at 3:25 PM)

Sadly, racism will never die in America. The news media and the government continually feed this monster. Why must we hear about the first black coach to win the Super Bowl, Miss Black America, Black Entertainment Television,United Negro Fund,etc (SEGREGATIONAL). The minority social programs offered by the government are RACIST by definiton.  This is a two pronged problem:

1. Not only is this segregational, it angers other races and keeps racism thriving.

2. What motivation does a person have if everything is given to him? There are thousands of    successful black Americans that worked very hard to succeed and accepted little help from the government. Most of these people are sadly chastised by the less motivated members of their race. How can any person say that affirmative action is not racist? How can America fix racism with racism? I believe that these programs will do nothing but feed racism and keep America divided.


Posted By: justawhiteguy (August 4, 2008 at 4:10 PM)

Dantresomi

Crimes of the USA are very few compared to almost every other nation on earth.

Soviet Union?

Spanish Inquisition?

Rwanda?

Nazi Germany?

South Africa?

Pol Pot?

China?

Japan?

Are you  kidding???


Posted By: robin85 (August 5, 2008 at 10:28 AM)

justawhiteguy,

...and anyone else who believes everything they hear. Obama did not remove "the flag" from his plane. He removed a corporate logo  (registered, protected trademark - a stylized version of the flag) from the airplane. That is why it was removed. On the tail of McCain's plane is "JOHNMCCAIN.COM" and also NO flag.

I hate this whole "Obama is not patriotic enough to be president" argument. Mc Cain also said he never really loved his country until he was a POW. It kind of disturbs me that Obama didn't (doesn't?) put his hand on his heart when the Anthem is played, but at least he was singing along in the video I saw.


Posted By: miss lauren (August 5, 2008 at 11:20 AM)

This happened with Obama and Farakhan too! He has to "distance himself" from any prominent black person who says something minorly controversial. What the heck is this? are they playing 6 degrees of separation from Obama? and anyone in that loop can be held accountable? I cant stand the conservatives!


Posted By: miss lauren (August 5, 2008 at 11:28 AM)

justawhiteguy you are one of those idiots who drove around with 5 flags strapped to your car after 9/11 werent you! Dumba**, patriotism is not waving a flag around, patriotism is always carrying it even when it wasn't cool and we didnt just suffer a massive attack AND having the knowledge and faith that you don't need to wave your flag to prove how patriotic youare, your proof is in your actions: voting, paying taxes, encouraging the country to do the right thing, no flag waving will do that! If you wave your flag too much you look like a Nazi, they had their flags all over the place, great people its good that you conservatives want to emulate them, means progress and higher office is for the rest of us, you continue to show your empty patriotism with your flag, I'll work to improve my contry just keep waving that flag see what good it does compared to my direct action.


Posted By: miss lauren (August 5, 2008 at 11:37 AM)

bw2893, you should really look into your civil rights organizations vs. terrorist organizations. While the BPP did have a military angle, they did not go into white areas and terrorize them, all they did (which if you think this is terrifying you really need to look at those racist ten