This is a great discussion. I do agree more with Ms lacewell but both you and Marc have a great point. I believe you make the overiding point very well when you said

"No matter how white-gloved and respectable we are, white supremacy has always managed to perpetuate lies about us. The real danger is what we think about ourselves.  We must keep our eyes on the prize of structural change.

Kids are hungry because Reagan cut free breakfast and school lunches."

I can't tell you how many times I hear black folk minimize the institutional inequalities by blaming ourselves with the same mainsteam rhetoric used against us. We of course find ways to improve on it. I heard a older lady say "they should empty all the jails and make them thugs fight the war". Lets not even comment on wether or not the war was right or wrong (wrong) but hearing her dismiss these brothers as "thugs" better fit to die in the war took a lot of wind out of my sails. In the same breath she proclaimed how she was stilll stuggling no matter how hard she worked. Who doesn't believe in personal responsability, but when a system has used you as one of it's greatest commodities since the countries inception, and does everything to keep it that way, how can you allow yourself to believe you are completely and totally at fault. Stand Up!

P.S

I voted for Obama on Tuesday, but I don't know if I would have if I heard his most recent comments.  He comes across like the negative stereotype of a bourgeois negro who has made it and has forgotten where he came from.  He was a weedhead and lived on welfare at one time, so who is he to pass judgment.  I don't believe he was speaking out of love for black people.  I agree with Marc, that his motives were to pander to potential white conservative voters.  He has done it in the past.  In his book "Audacity of Hope," he fawned over Ronald Reagan as if he were the Messiah.  I live in one of the poorest city in the U.S.: Cleveland.  I hope when he becomes president he has a better game plan for helping struggling cities other than laying all the blame on poor people for their condition. And by the way, who is taking care if his kids while he's running around the country campaigning?  For all he knows, they could be eating Popeyes for breakfast, too.  

Melissa, You hit the nail on the head in your first line.  Mom and John Wayne taught us to not pick on a smaller man, it's just not the right thing to do.  But...since the beginning of time, the White Right (I'm a 59 year old German/Irish Hoosier farmboy, by the way) has used every trick in the book to (and this is where you may begin to learn something new) keep the competition down.  Not just to keep blacks, women, the uneducated, immigrants, and all those other 'suppressed' groups down, but anyone who could possibly in any way become a viable competitor in their world of business, politics, religion, and whatever else they feel is their right to dominate.  

It's never been a personal thing directed against individuals, though they have used direct attacks to intimidate, rather a tactic of a traditionally dominant group that by any means has done it's best to keep a barrier between their position at the top and anyone who could potentially challenge that position.  

I am so proud that Obama has chosen the High Road, not stooped to the low tactics of traditional politics, preached what I've always believed to be the true worth of any endeaver...that when you live by those high principles, you elevate yourself above the common fray and make the world a better place, if but for the hope that you bring to those aaround you who have yet to find their stride.

I grew up poor in the deep South, and I agree 100% with Obama.  He just needs to complete the thought, which would include the points made in this blog.  Both positions have merit and need to be heard by our people.

I'm amazed and appalled at the same time by the dust up over the "Cosbyesqe comments."  

Senator Obama speaks of the disenfranchised about making better life decsions in situations they can control.  Yet, he is criticized for not mentioning the oppressive forces in society that contribute to the harmful outcomes?  Conventional wisdom in the black community is to criticize the laws and policies that contribute the problem, without addressing the behavior that needs to be corrected.  Also, the notion that Obama's comments are considred right wing rhetoric is indicative of our unwillingness to have simple kitchen table conversations in public about making better life decisions.  This line of thinking implies that individual improvement can't exist until better public policies are formed.  This line of thinking is self defeatist, reactionary, and counterproductive to forging honest dialogue that could bring about "real change" in our communities.

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I applaud you for being able to say that Senator Obama's focus on personal responsibility as a way to deal with the inequalities facing the black community was inaccurate.

I am always offended when the African American community is chastized in public and the discussion never makes it to the cause of not all, but a lot of the affects of inequality.  It also infuriates me that bad behavior is only attributed to us, when in fact, as you stated, these behaviors occur within many races.  We are always the go to group to point out failure and it has become an acceptable sport and  when we participate, we allow the perpetuation of the sport.

As I said in my comments to Mr. Hill's  post, I agree that that message was given to that audience to say to other groups, I'm not like them.   I am a strong Obama supporter and I forgive him because we have all at some time or another have wanted to tell other black folks to just get it together!  The fact is though, that most of us would not do it in mixed company.

Many of Obama's white supporters long for a black leader who is conservative on issues of race.  The notion that he will heal this country's racial wounds by preaching a form of moral uplift is what excites them.  Cashing in on this fantasy is a political goldmine but will only produce heartbreak for members of his constituency when it fails to bear fruit.  The problem with many of Obama's white followers is that they fail to grasp that this method of blaming the poor is what has informed policy makers for the past thirty years.  Nor have they come to the conclusion that these methods don't produce any real change.  They hold out hope that the large society will have to be held accountable.  Just as race constituted a blind spot for progressives at the turn of the century when Booker T. Washington's teachings held sway, race constitutes a blind spot for progressives today who expect Obama to support a whole array of progressive concerns but want him to remain conservative on race.                  

But when you don't have much, you have to do your best.  We exist in the shadows of generations that did their best in the face of lynching, disfranchisement, and the systematic destruction of black schools. We have got to "be the change we want to see."  Even as we demand structural change, we must demand the best of ourselves, all the better to fight the fight with well-prepared warriors.

this is not a game. the man is down for a reason. he didn't just end up there for nothing. noting the reasons for his failure this past tuesday is not only not immoral, it is eminently moral and correct. this is the time, the exact time, to take a deep breath and do what needs doing--namely, really taking a long hard look at exactly who this man is and what he represents. this is the time to look into ALL of his past, ALL of his past statements and ALL of his actual deeds and assess them carefully and even coldly. this is not a game--it is a contest. it is a test. it is the only time we will EVER have to get it right and we have every right to be brutal. the stakes are too high to be forgiving. they really, really are. empires fall all the time in history--always just after reaching what seems to everyone living inside it to be their pinnacles. there are no plateaus. empires rise until they fall. Obama reveals himself whenever he expresses such hackneyed affluent-white-friendly mythologies about social inequality--he uses the language of an empire in sharp decline. the economy is wrecked. the environment is under siege. global warming is proven man-made and continues unabated by any meaningful policy. we occupy a country we invaded to depose a dictator we let them install and whose atrocities are on OUR heads--and we remain there at a cost of 3 TRILLION dollars and commit all of the same atrocities ourselves among the ruins we made. Obama refuses to acknowledge any of this. Obama refuses to acknowledge that the only americans of significance against a single payer health care system are corporate shareholders. Obama refuses to acknowledge that the only americans of significance that want us to remain in the middle east are the arms and oil interests, which are the same business--arms acquiring oil/oil paying for arms--despite overwhelming public demand to immediately withdraw from this single greatest creator of global instability. Obama refuses to acknowledge his alliance with Zbignew Brzezinski and the Council on Foreign Relations and their goal of maintaining and expanding american hegemony and global domination via constant conflict burning through countless lives ripped from those they have systemically impoverished. can they be serious? can they seriously be allowed to do this? can they seriously have only their own affluent interests at heart? YES THEY CAN. the only change you'll see with Obama will be the meager stuff jingling in your pocket on pay day. Obama is down. he earned it.

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This makes me think about the "Black Tax".  I don't think Obama would ever deny that blacks in America are disadvantaged due to systemic and legistative issues, but neither do I think we use what is available to us to the fullest.  We've got to learn to use our resources to the fullest because nothing will be handed to us.  And then we've got to be ready to fight like hell to get more.  Like my mother always told me - we have to be twice as good to be considered half as good.

oh please.  the man makes a comment about taking a modicum of personal/parental responsibility and suddenly he's the BOOGEYMAN...unfairly attacking the black poor and pandering to the white right???  GIMME A BREAK!!!  as someone who teaches low-income children, i see kids who come to school dirty, hungry and attention-deprived on a daily basis.  i've also followed those children home only to find that mama or daddy 'owns' a tricked-out SUV, rims shining in the sun...so don't even go there!  obama--quiet as it's kept and much to  his credit--has OFTEN spoken of the STRUCTURAL INEQUALITY that persists in this nation!  that's one of the main reasons i support him.  but, of course, his so-called cosby moment is the one that the corporate-owned, biased mainstream media decided to loop over and over and over again.  wake up people.  when was the last time you saw an obama town hall meeting on mainstream networks?  yeah...that's what i thought.  and have u noticed that we're currently experiencing a full-on obama media coverage BLACKOUT?  nothing wrong with reminding folks to stop making excuses for not doing the basics when it comes to child-rearing.  get over the embarrassment, shallow excuses and "see, i knew he was bourgeois"  high horse and help a needy child.

I trust that, by now, you've realized, both you and Marc, that our homeboy is/was not "down", pragmatist that he ism though very highly motivated by his vision of what the future for all can be?

I concur with your comment that blacks in the Western world tend, by and large, to be a self-seprecating lot and with the reasons therfor that you gave.

Growing up in rural Trinidad, as aon of a Caribbean First Peoples mother and father whose grandfather was an Yoruban chief, my focus, from a tot, was, by them, focused aright: I was taught/instructed/warned to ask questions, study hard, eat right, early to be early to rise, do your share of the household chores and then some, respect your elders, get involved in community activities (the uplifting kinds), etc.

Many times, as a youth, I was resentful over their rigidity but, as I matured, I understood that such simple admonitions were intended to and did yield salutory results, in that I am able to cope with and overcome whatever life throws at me and, guess what, serve as a good role model to my children and to others younger or less fortunate than I am.

So! In a nutshell: I give Barack top marks for the messages he gave and wish to remind your penpal, Marc, that Barack's audience was merely the vehicle which, at the time, he used whereby to get his message out to the wider community.

Bless!

I understand the concerns address, but I don't agree with the political tone.  Particularly, after reading the comments posted by other readers.  I saw Obama in Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas and he made the same types of comments there.  Most of his speech is about the difficulties families face because of failed policies, corporate greed, and undue influence by special interest, and how he plans to address these problems.  This passage specifically comes during the time when he talks about education, more pay for teachers, getting rid of standardized testing, and early childhood education.  Based on his background, I believe he thoroughly understands the constraints that people face.  I think it is misleading to assign an ulterior motive.

We all know about personal responsibility in the Black community. The fact that there are those in our community whose priorities could use some work is no less prevalent in other communities. Just take a look at the state of most people's credit in this country (re: the Fed injecting banks with money so already-debt-hampered Americans can dig themselves a deeper economic grave while said banks thrive). Nothing that any politician does is out of happenstance. Everything is calculated. So we must ask why Obama decided play the "y'all triflin'" card. We didn't need him to do it, as it has been done in our communities umpteen times. The fact is the Senator from Illinois did what he did to comfort conservatives and Reagan democrats, just as Bill Clinton and Michael Dukakis HAD to do before him. The obligatory, "see, I'll be tough on the negro" approach is nothing new. It's politics as usual for those who want to be taken seriously for this country's highest office.

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let,s stop fooling ourselves.we got a ton of lazy dudes slouching around in our communities.you can tell them about opportunities and they look at you like you are crazy.and momma is co-signed on the bullshit too becuase they don,t demand that these guys compete.

Wow! I think you guys are getting yourselves too worked up over nothing. I sat in an audience wjhen he said these words. Were you there or are you taking just these few lines and not understanding the totality of the speech. What Obama said is 100 percent correct. He is not placing blame on the blacfk folk or saying this is the way to fix our prtoblems. He pointed out while there needs to be someone like himself to fight for us- not just blacks because I sat in a predominately hispanic and white audience in San Antonio, Texas- these are some things that we should do for ourselves now.

I am for everything he said. I believe there needs to be structural change, but truthfully there are some things that we as black folk need to do for ourselves. One, get your kids from in front of the television. I am not trying, and Obama, was not overgeneralizing. His comments were for those that needed to hear this. Yes, get your child from in front of the t.v. and videogames, talk to them, read books, etc.

I hope all of you doubters or skeptics stop overanalyzing and spend more time axctually working in the community with our poor black families. You will see truths like this need to be told. I volunteer and work in my old community. These little truths can change a child's life. I do understand that there are the parents that work two jobs, that do not have time, etc. But, there are also parents that do not have this excuse. Our young teenage parents and parents in their twenties that have not taken responsibility for their behavior because people are afraid to speak the truth, but rather continue to go on to blame someone else. Let's wake up, unite, and work on a solution instead of trying to degrade or down someone. Black people (especially black men)-Crab in the basket mentality.

Is there a word missing here or is this what you meant?   "It is just false to believe that bad behavior leads to bad outcomes."  

If you believe that there isn't a connection between behavior and outcomes the world is going to be bewildering to you.  Perhaps this is why you don't get Cosby.

Parents should feed their children.  To argue that kids are hungry in 2008 because of policies of a dead man (i.e., Reagan) is silly.  Don't have children if you can't feed them.  

I'm not sure what "structuralism" is, but if it doesn't allow for the statement "Don't have kids you can't feed", then there's a hole in the ideology.

If I am wrong I could have sworn that Obama had run an ad in various states like Wisconsin about the role of parents in their children's education. Wisconsin is predominately white. Obama often talks about "turning off the T.V." etc at many rallies. He is not saying that this should replace changing policies. Obama often discusses how Americans should work to empower themselves.

I am a young African American youth speaking from the ground!!! I see the nihilistic dispositions of my counterparts and I know what it is a result of. I know how our government and society has screwed us. This has given me an incentive to fight. My parents instilled certain things in me and when I tutor and volunteer in Brooklyn and Harlem schools, I bring that with me. Empowering oneself is not  a call to replace changes  that should take place in our government, policy and society. It should also be noted that someone discussing personal responsiblity can often come off as sounding as if they are scolding but it is actually for self-empowerment. I dont think Senator Obama was trying to show up African Americans. He has done this in all arenas to all types of people. I dont think that he thinks that African Americans are to blame for their own oppression or that racism does not exist. I am sick and tired of my people dismissing any sense of personal responsiblity and need to empower oneself. The reason why so many of us are down is because we are waiting for someone (government) to help us. As has been proven to us for the last 400 years, that isn't likely. While it would be just, we should not wait around for it. We must empower ourselves, our children, our community etc...So dismissing self-empowerment and social responsiblity when our government has proven over and over again that we are not a priority would be...stupid. We need to stop kicking ourselves.

What angers me most about the public  (media) discussion of Barack Obama and race is the statement  "he transcends race". What White politician in the history of this country has ever transcended race or even tried! Yet, Obama is suppose to do that. I love Obama's message and will vote for him in the election, but White America isn't ready too elect  (forgive me) an "[un]transcended" Black man/women to the Presidency of this country. We vote for White folks in every election! We don't demand that they give up their Whiteness.

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