In America, you have to fight for recognition, for exceptance, for survival. I agree with your evaluation that this anger being played out in our streets has a deeper meaning than whats on the surface. However, what is it ! Is it cultural depervation, economic stagnation, low self esteem. I was once in a night club attending a party, this particular night the woman who was throwing the party became combative with a night club patron who mistakenly ate from her party table. Fist and beer bottles flew because someone ate her chicken wings. This is the same type of anger displayed in your blog. Black people fighting and some times killing over trivial situations. I somtimes have to restrain myself from this damaging behavior. For the life of me, I have yet to isolate a cause for these feelings of anger, and violence.

"Fist and beer bottles flew because someone ate her chicken wings."

ROFL!!!

This place (Earth) can get out right hilarious at times, sadly...

People have so much invisible pain and often that pain leads to rage and violence. Stomping someone out over chicken wings, sneakers, clothes, etc., is a physical manifestation of a much deeper issue. People don't fight 'cuz they are happy and well adjusted. Neither do they fight because they have been taught how to communicate effectively or other ways of powerful, healing release.

It is easy to laugh at or dismiss someone "not like you." However, I think we (black folks) have been so conditioned to save/heal/rescue the (straight) black man, that we have forgotten (or rather, been desensitized to?) the needs of the rest of the group. Case in point, if those of us who are neither male or straight were busy healing and taking care of ourselves, then we might not have the host of issues in our communities that we do.

Maybe it is this marginalization by their own cultural group, this othering, (on top of other things) that fuels the ability to wild out over such trivialities.

Just a thought.

I'll admit I might be missing the point, but are you suggesting that this event might have been taken more seriously if it were heterosexual men?  Because I have bemusedly watched my fair share of fights among such a group as well.  And none of those were broken up or otherwise intervened in either (well, I'll differentiate - fights between kids/teens, maybe; fights among legally grown men, hardly ever were broken up).

The dismissiveness was likely attributed to an assumption (right or wrong) that these women were not armed, literally making the whole ordeal a spectator sport.  Fights among straight men may be watched with an eye of caution, on the other hand.  But I disagree to the extent that you suggest (if I understand you correctly) that fights among men are taken seriously while fights among "others" are not.  Because no matter whose fighting, we all want to see if somebody takes an L.  And so we watch.  Popcorn and cell phone cameras in hand.

CLARITYCANTWAIT... Thanks for the comment.

I'm not attempting to single out orientation necessarily. But I am suggesting there's a dismissive tone people take when women fight or when, in this instance, gays/lesbians fight.  

I'm not sure I agree with you about assuming someone's not armed, but there is some assumption or predisposition in place when "others" and women are in conflict.

Fighting, in and of itself, is silly.  After reading both your articles about this, I still stand on the same point:  anyone who puts themselves in the place to physically fight on a public street is opening themselves up to be nothing more than entertainment.  I am a 30-something black ***, and I can assure you, I, and none of my friends feel insulted that folk stood by and merely laughed at the "fighting lesbians".  I do have to admit, there is a problem with homophobia and denial in the black community, but your story is not an example of that.

By the way, if you're going to talk about the black community's problem with gays... how about "The Root" not filter the word l-e-s-b-i-a-n.  Let's start there.

And need I mention that "fighting lesbians" made it to the page, yet the word "***" followed by the word "black" did not .... hmmmm

Initially I wanted to agree, but then I realized your reaction to both fights was the same. You did not help when the females were fighting and you did not help when the males were fighting. Then I realized, my reaction ( to reading)  both fights was the same too.

I can't get with you on this one, Keith.  

CATCH.... I find it interesting that you're accusing me of not helping. Where is that coming from?

One, I was on my way to the police when the bus pulled up and the fight dispersed.

Two, when the teen males were fighting I called the police.  One guy was stomping the other in the head with HIS FOOT.

But ultimately, I'm trying to bring this possible dismissive behavior to the forefront and have a conversation about it.

WinC... interesting point. I just noticed the absence of "lesbians". Mmm....

First of all, I think there is a bit of an unequal comparison here, two people swinging at each other is not the same as one person stomping on another.  In general - yes a fight is a fight, and they should all be taken seriously - but the perceived physical harm to both the individual participants and to yourself (the spectator) does, and I believe should, make a difference.  So lets compare apples to apples – would a general swinging fight between two men be considered more serious then a fight between two women – probably.  Why – pretty much the reasons that claritycantwait spelled out.  Now the important question is – exaclty how does that relate to your statement “a society that often finds humor in women initiating ideas or speaking their mind”.  

This bothers me a great deal because I’ve seen this kind of stuff in other articles, blogs, etc. – there seems to be an inability to separate the concepts of different from equality – regardless if its this post racial stupidity or issues regarding gender or homosexuality.  For us to consider women equal and their ideas important, we have to consider their physical altercations as serious as that of mens - really?  Do we use that same standard for asians – unless they know kung-fu, we just don’t listen to them?

We need to stop trying to look past color, gender, sexuality, and all our other differences – and look at it and not only accept but welcome our diversity.  I know that seems trite – but for some reason we haven’t been able to catch on to it yet, both in the general society and within our own culture.  Should a fight between women be considered serious – sure.  But because I assume that the worst that’s going to happen is some scratching and some hair pulling – does that mean that I think that they are of less value, less equal, less important as individuals – only if our only definition of equality is that a female has to be exactly like a man.  In which case I’m screwed, because I thought to be a good engineer I just had to be intelligent, hard working and play the same corporate game like everyone else – I didn’t know I also had to turn into a man.

By the way, yes - I know I'm screwed.  But it would be nice to go on an interview and not have a) the hr person almost fall on the floor when he realizes I'm an african american female or b) a rush to hire me as fast as possible with the word quota flashing in front of their eyes.

You never did answer one person's question...you said you WANTED to do something. They asked you why  you didn't.

I'm curious to know the answer as well.

My question, btw, is about the first posting-the fighting women. I see your response about the curb stomping...

"west coast gangsta style". <----That phrase saddens me.

Whoa Kevin Josef, whoa. I understand your point and I agree that there is a bias. However, in reading the article  (and I am a straight ally who advocates for gay rights all the time and is very sensitive to the issue) you made it seem like a spectacle, people tearing off their clothes, to the point of it being theatrical. That's how you depicted it. Now, should the police have stepped in? Yes, of course. However, I wouldn't say that if I was there, I wouldn't be in awe of what was happening based on what you wrote, not because they were lesbians, but they were people creating havoc. I wouldn't be enjoying the spectacle though; I never enjoy arguments like that, no matter the people involved. I just hope that you can also understand the point of a lot of the comments that were made earlier and I do not believe that they stand as an example of denial based on this one incident.  I firmly believe that this incident does nothing really address the issue of homophobia that is rampant in the black community.  My bigger thing is this, Kevin, if you saw that a wrong was being committed, why didn't you do something about it?

DUAFENY... it's KEITH, not Kevin.  It's an easy mistake, but LOL...

I appreciate your comment, however, I addressed the "do something about it" question in one of the comments.  But I do understand your point about the picture I painted with the fighting.  Although I stick to my guns regarding the subtle dismissivenes [ i know what I saw and heard], I've learned some folks interpret one incident in a variety of ways. And I'm cool with that.