the caveat: the more i learn, the less i really know... about anything.

 first off i agree  about cnn's coverage on being black in america. i can't wait to read the other blogger's insightful takes. the black in america segment appeared to be edited  and catered towards  a primetime audience that was competing against reality tv.this topic would have been better suited for pbs' frontline. they "dig" much deeper. (sorry for digressing,but it's too bad because i do like what amanpour brings to the table with cnn.)

as far as the light skinned take....man.... that one maybe the blessing and the curse. i saw several light skinned black folks "getting hated" on by darker black folks growing up. one of my favorite mc's, del thafunkyhomosapien even did a song related: "dark skinned girls are better than light skinned girls." (i'm really dating myself with that cut.). this type of attitude that darker blacks had towards light skinned blacks  was ubiquitous to me. i saw it everywhere i went, on a medium scale though, not to an extreme.

 other races perceptions towards light skinned blacks varied. some thought if you were nappy, you were black, no matter the complexion. (the tongans and samoans would be quick to correct that assumption, yet they could still get away with saying "***" in an amiable way.) but don't trip, there was always that "educated" white person that just had to play dime store psychologist and get all presumptuous: "a light skinned black. speaks white. her/his mother must be white and her father must be black and not around." there. right there at this instance i think you may have some conscious special treatment.

 i see any other type of special treatment towards light skinned folks as being motivated strictly by the  subconscious. american media bludgeon's us with european images everywhere; strait hair, light skin, etc. this in my opinions affects perception.

                   one guy's naive and abridged take.

I agree with you and stevebiko that CNN's "Black In America" could never adequately cover this subject in a few hours.  I didn't learn anything new, but maybe I'm not in their target audience.  I admit that I fell asleep about half way through.

Being a dark-skinned man of dark-skinned parents, I was never exposed to the light/dark divide within my family.  And, because I grew up in the only black family in a small, New England town, I never had to contend with the light/dark divide in the larger world, either.  In fact, I never knew any other black people who weren't family until another black family moved into the neighboring town.  So, my experience is probably not your typical "Black In America" experience.

It wasn't until I went away to college (1981) that I was around (relatively) large numbers of black people, and then discovered this light-skin/dark-skin divide.  It was very real.  The movers and shakers on campus tended to be lighter-skinned.  Most black women (light and dark skin) definitely gave the light skin men more play.  This was the age of "Rick Fox" sex symbols and movie stars.

Things got somewhat better for us darker men during the tenure of Wesley Snipes, but I'd still argue that being lighter skinned (with "good" hair) has always been an asset.  

What should we do?  Beats me.  I don't know if the light/dark problem will be any easier to solve than racism generally, but both problems are clearly inter-connected.  I suspect that one cannot be solved without solving the other.

colorism was one of quite a few "dirty little secrets" in the black community, that have been exposed.  Only recently the issue of the brown paper bag test came up, due to the 100th anniversary of AKA...one of many Black sororities who used the brown paper bag test to exclude darker skinned african americans.  We love to talk about the evils that white folks did, and in some cases still do, perpetuate against us, be we conveniently overlook the evils, esp. the past evils, that lightskinned black people  perpetuated against darkskinned black people.  Fact is, Dyson's brother isn't serving a life sentence on death row because he's darkskinned, he's serving a life sentence because he was a damned fool and made stupid choices.  Please -- if darkskinned played a part in incarceration, then my both my grandfathers, my father, brothers, cousins, and husband, would be sitting in jail.  As far as the yellow negro child thing, black folks, dark and light, have always fawned over lightskinned children, to the exclusion of darkskinned children.  

My mother, who is very fairskinned, married my father, a darkskinned man, and had two children...myself and my sister.  I am on the darker side, my sister is on the lighter side, and between the ages of birth and maybe six, she was the poster child for lightskinned black girls...light skin, light eyes, curly hair.   My mother had friends whom she loved dearly, but were annoyed by their "colorstruck" nature.  So she and my dad laid down some ground rules, when they brought my babysister home from the hospital, to visitors:  no one was to comment about her skin color, eye color or hair texture in front of me; no one was to ignore me while fawning over her, the term "good hair" was not to be spoken in the home, visitors bearing gifts for the baby must bring a gift for me.  If anyone broke those rules, that person would be asked to leave.  Being a lightskinned person herself, and seeing her darkerskinned cousins being mistreated or altogether ignored by ignorant black people, my mother was determined not to let that happen to me.

Good afternoon Keith/All,

The "Black in America" segment on CNN was very interesting, compelling, enlightening, etc, to watch. My fav guest speaker was Sheryl Lee Ralph. Her viewpt's /stance on the topic of AIDS in Black-America was especially hard-hitting and moving. At anyrate, to follow up on the above referenced topic, I am a bi-racial women (Caucasian & Afr. Amer.) who has experienced favoritism in my professional work environment, in school, in the public eye, and even throughout my family due to the color (lightness) of my skin complexion. I can count numerous times where I believe my skin color has unjustly allowed me to "get ahead" of others. I was picked first in multiple venues like: Student councils, Spanish Clubs, and Homecoming Events; ahead of other equally qualified people. I have been greeted with a smile in clothing stores, grocery stores, various other public places etc; while watching other dark toned African Americans walk by the greeters w/o even being acknowledged. I have watched my father who is a darker toned black man be treated like dirt by store owners/cust. serv. reps., but when I approach the same individuals about the same subject I am more likely to get asssistance than he is. Even my own family when myself and darker colored cousins got into some trouble in our teenage yrs (snuck into an older club when underage) were more forgiving of me and handled down less punshiment to me.

Why is that? Is it because light is closer to "white" and we Americans still have the ignorant conception that white is right or more politically correct? I admit the way I am often treated is unfair. I wanna be treated highly because I am intelligent, successful, a hard worker, honest, caring, sincere and so on , versus because I am light skinned African American. Any thoughts? In agreement? Similar stories?

I'm going to also assume that the CNN's series is not targeted at me.  Most, if not all of the topics covered I've known or had enough insight to understand.  I guess maybe if it was shown on PBS, it might hit home and provide some solutions (public vs. "mainstream").  It gets old telling the same stories with no solutions over and over again.  Back on the subject, this "color war" may be inadvertant considering the culture of Amerikkka.  I'm not saying a lot of it isn't on purpose, but it is a silly concept that needs to get dealt with.  There are way too many issues to deal with to worry about how light or dark someone skin tone is...ROFL!!!

I just read something similar to this post at racialicious this morning.  Cheryl Lynn asks What am I supposed to do in the face of persisting images of racial stereotyping; how can I think of raising children when racial strife in this form persists.  And now your post asking for corresponding thoughts on the light/dark spectrum and it's societal effects on black folk.

I wish I had an answer.  I wish I could say more than "I understand the repulse reaction to being forced to look at the possibility."  I wish that any one of us discussing this had any more of an answer than "I don't know."

I always wonder if it IS enough to have the discussion, if it IS enough that there are people concerned with the way race is manifested both within and outside of the United States.  Because where ARE the answers?

Interesting question. I wish I had an idea of how to answer it. I can only draw from my own experiences. Too look at my maternal grandmother, you would say that she’s a white woman. Her sisters look just like her while her brother was dark-skinned. I’ve only seen pictures of my great-grandparents and they were fair as well. I wish I knew how it was for them growing up. She married my grandfather, a very dark skinned man and my uncles were dark like him. My mother, however, was light. She has told me in the past about how when she was born her father did not think she was his because she was so light skinned. When she married my father, another dark-skinned man and they had my brother and I, we were both very close in color, a nice chocolate brown, taking more after our dad. I can’t say that I feel particularly privileged from coming from such a long line of “yellow” children. I know my paternal grandmother hated it. She would make me sit out in the sun for hours a day during the Summers I visited to darken my skin. Only when I reached an acceptable shade of darkness was it ok for me to be around her. I did get the whole “talking white/acting white” thing growing up. But I’m not sure if it had more to do with how I looked or how I spoke. As for dating guys, the few black men who have actually been interested in me have been dark-skinned.

Who was their targeted audience - were they trying to educate the white folk? Don't we all know that stuff already? "Black People 01: A quick reference for what you may not have know". It held my attention but with all the build up to it my bubble was deflated a bit.

ok here goes. when i was growing up in the caribbean i remembered hearing a friend repeat what her grandfather had said about the kids in  the school and their parents - " If you black stand back, if you brown stick around but if you white you alright!". He was a white man whose kids married dark skinned spouses/concubines. She, my friend was light or how we'd say in the caribbean 'dirty-beige'! Although she hated it as much as us "darkies" she still ended up marrying a 1/2 white 1/2 chinese guy- her preference, cool.

My own personal experience growing up was hearing comments like " she's so pretty for a dark girl" - "oh you have good hair" and such delights.  My own grandfather, from stories told, refused to attend my mother's wedding because she married a dark skinned man. Hell, he married a woman black as night and his father was the same! So what is that about? My dad was a bit of a scoundrel though so i think that had something to do with it. It did however, go with the fact that they believed the blacker the man the less intellegent and lacked the capacity to be faithful as he was driven by his roots to have multiple women-he was unrefined! WTF, but come to think of it, my expereinces have been just that.

Black men, my coloring, and I'd say I'm a caramel shade, beautiful skin - maybe a Michelle Obama look even- these men don't even look my way except to see if they can succeed at getting some. I ended up marrying a white guy because here was soemone who saw past my physical (but very much appreciated the physical). We enjoyed some great years together and like many relationships things went wrong. My own black sisters chided me marrying out of my kind - after eating my wedding cake and stuff but that's how it is.

A famos reggae artist put it beautifully (check him out on youtube- Buju Banton). Two songs the first 'Browning'. Lyrics "I love my car i love my bike i love my money and things but most of all i love my browning. It goes on to describe this light skinned woman and how beuatiful her skin was and how he would "sport" her around. This man was very dark, barely educated and had unkept locks. There was public outcry at the song and then he came out with " Black Woman".  Lyrics: I can't stop crying for all black women becasue their struggles are so many"! Hello, what is that crap? TRUTH!

My son is growing up light skinned and he likes asian girls, can we say why we're attracted to who we're attracted to? He says white women are not attractive and dark skinned girls are just friend material-he's 15yrs old. Deep down it hurts to hear him say this because it feels like he's speaking against me. I have hair just past my shoulders (good hair-lol) but when i put on a long wig to go out just for a different look-soemthing sexy-yes i know i just did it myself....my son says "Wow, mom you look gorgeous, you're so pretty!". When i just do the normal he says "Mom you look really nice".

Is it the media, or is it inbred? I watched a documentary a few years ago that looked at what makes soemone attractive and sure enough they used babies-infants as a part of the study. Sure enough the smiles and gurgles came when these 'just landed on earth' litle people saw pictures of people with aqualine features, including blacks such as Iman, Tyra Banks etc. So the answer to my own question would be the latter-it's inbred and then cultivated by socialization.

So we continue in the struggle with the house slave vs the field slave. The walls are coming down and it will only be through perserverance or maybe acceptance that we will get it right...

There is a Change going on and now America is starting to discuss some issues that it thought were buried deep away.  I am a dark skinned American and yes I have lighter skinned family members.  All my life I have heard' You are to dark for me to date" or " I hope my baby does not come out as dark as the father" or my favorite, " You would be cute if you were not so dark".  

The paper bag test, if you are darker than a paper bag then you are consider unattractive or not good enough.  The ruler test, if your hair is as straight as a ruler than you have good hair.  Yes, the CNN production was short but what it did was put out there the questions that need to be answered.  We are living in denial if we Americans of color think that is just the whites that are keeping up back.

Turn on BET any day and you will see the light skinned vs. the dark skinned for yourself.  Even in music videos, more so in music videos.  All over the world dark skinned people are consider unattractive.  Whenever someone wants to say something negative about a dark skinned person, the first thing they bring out is how dark they are.

But on the flip side, white people are tanning themselves to point of risking cancer to appear more dark. Bronze I think they call it.  I have heard some of my white friends discuss how they do not want to be so pale, as if being pale is a unattractive thing to be.

Spike Lee discussed the issue of skin tone in the movie School Dayz, why did we waited so long to put on the subject, I have an idea.  There are some people of color who do not want white people to know that there is racism among people of color.  That we treat each other with the back of bus mentality we just don't take about it.

Racism has nothing to do with your ethnic background, it has everything to do with your character and your mentality.  I do not understand why we expect whites to treat us with equal respect when we do less of that for our own.

I think its time that we, Americans of color, start talking about the elephants in the room, because why we are trying to pull the branch out of white people's eyes, there is a log in ours.  And no, I do not blame white people for the racism in the world, because as I said it has nothing to do with color, all you have to do is read the Bible and understand what the Jews went through.  

There has always been racism in this world there was just no word for it.  

I agree with stevebiko – the more I learn, the less really I know.

“Black in America” isn’t supposed to teach us (black people) anything, I don’t think. I was formulated to stimulate conversations. If you are in anyway enlightened and educated, most of the issues are not new. But, for others, in light of Obama’s potential presidency, it is something new and fascinating and they should be brought up to speed. Yes, the issues affect all of us as Americans, but really…do any of us know what is happening in the Asian communities? Hispanic communities? This is the tip of the iceberg for meaningful conversations and potential opportunities for learning and we should be ready.

And yes, there is light-skinned privilege. I am light (often mistaken for Latina or biracial) and I get treated differently, more privileges and obvious acceptance. I married inter-racially (he’s Korean and Czech) and we both come with children (mine-Belizean and black, his Irish and Korean/Czech). In public, we garner many stares, but that’s ok. In my mind, there is always time for a lesson to those who are open. But, I am concerned with how my son is viewed, being that he is the brownest in my home and subject to the light vs. brown controversy. What do I do? How to instill self-love to my son in a world that tells him that he doesn’t deserve it based on his skin color? By talking about it and not pretending that it doesn’t exist. And teaching him that his worth as a person isn’t determined by the color of his skin. And that skin is just as beautiful as anyone else’s.

But, I thank you for starting this conversation. It’s cathartic to get it all out…

Are you REALLY suprised by this? White people have F'd us up. And it's not just us. Every race has the same issue. When you watch news reports from any 3rd world nation the people on the street are dark. Watch their media and all you see are lightskin people. Check out anything coming from Brazil where we know the boat stpped. The only non sports stars are white. in Asia women walk around with umbrellas so they don't get dark. Read the bible, evidently we are cursed with black skin. That's one of the main reasons ?I have no room in my life for black so called christians. Llis in my family, my dad looked straight up white and he told me never to pass up dark skin even though my mom was "colorstruck". I look anything but black and even I remember the first time I hated my baby brother was when he came home from the hospital and my grandmother wouldn't shut up about how cute her"white grandbaby" was .

However, color tone had nothing to do with getting locked up. My priviledged little "white" brother got into gangsta rap to prove his street cred and, long story short, is serving a life sentence. If anything, it worked against him.

Btw, for a good look at color with us black folk, watch "Sparkle" it's as true on the subject as any CNN crap could ever be.

Keith, thank you for writing this and bringing it up. Being white the only skin privilege I knew of is the unconcious stuff that happens all the time for whites but not for blacks. Reading all your posts has made me far more aware of what my children might feel when they are growing up with their cousins, and made me question why my fiance (black/hispanic) is attracted to me. As an outsider looking in, I would like to posit a way to prevent skin privilege, do as Patra's parents did and not allow people to force those upon your children. Looking at my fiance's family I think that they put that into practice starting with his grandmother. She once told me that her mother didn't like her because she was dark like her father, I feel that she put that message out to her children as well as embracing all shades. My fiance's family is in every shade, from "passing" to dark as night, and I don't notice any preferential treatment from the older generation to ours down to the youngest at 18 months. I'm hoping that when we have children that my eyes wont be opened an undercurrent of lightness preference.

Ah, the old light skin/dark skin conundrum.  The more I believe that black people have gotten over this, there are little things that happen that remind me of this.  For example, I have a friend whose sister in law just had her second child, and one of the things she was concerned with is that he might be brown skinned.  The first child was light.  I was kind of shocked by this because I wouldn't think that a mother would blatantly say that the complexion of the child is something to be of concern.  It's 2008 and we're still concerned about this.

Although I'm dark skinned myself I never thought that this was a major issue in my family.  In fact, my mother always made it a issue to talk about the beauty of dark skin.  If I got a suntan she would say that I was kissed by the sun.  She also hated the term "good hair", and wouldn't let me use that term.  She always said that good hair is hair that covers your head.  I guess she was trying to counter anything negative that I might be exposed to.  Mostly I felt that the privilege of lighter skin was more aesthetic than anything else.  It would seem when I was growing up that the boys liked my lighter friends while teasing always involved talking about how dark someone was.  Although, teasing someone about being light also occured.

Although, light skin/dark skin may still be an issue I don't believe it is as much of a big deal as it used to be.  In DC there are many people that rock natural hair and many see dark skinned sistas as something that is beautiful.  Also, the class system within the black community has more to do now with education than skin color.  I see both light and dark in both middle class blacks and lower and impovished blacks.  Hopefully, colorism will eventually die away within the black community.  There are too many other issues that need to be addressed.

If anyone especially anyone who is of African Descent has problems with this reality than I feel sorry for them.  We as black folks know all too well that being light, bright and damn near white affords its privileges in/out of the black community and this is the cold hard truth!  Now I am not saying that you are afforded the same privileges as if you were white, but in comparison to darker skinned black folks privlege does exists.  It's just like white folks who refuse to acknowledge that there are certain priviledges that come with being white even if you are at the bottom of the economic scale, being poor and white in many instances is perceived to be better than being black of any shade or economic status.  We are so consumed with being "accepted" into this european-created society that we have conformed and adopted the same lifestyles and standards that dictate that we view dark skin as being connectd to evil & ugly.  The truth is that we have to begin the process of deprogramming our misguided beliefs and get back to our natural born heritage and the standards that we have set and impose on ourselves not the standards of others.  We even see this being played out in "our" magazines where the standard of beauty is that of "black" women with the features of white women.  Of course we have to embrace blackness and the many shades that fall under our black umbrella, but to embrace the negativity associated with the color black is absolutely destructive to our growth, success and prosperity as Africans in America.

I don't even know what it means that I feel obliged to preface my post with the fact that I am a white male, of "Generation X" age, who lives in and was raised in the South, though to non-southern (Chicago and Germany) parents.  I would not presume to tender comment on colorism and its effect on the black community, as how could I know?  

It seems clear that as our society progresses, rates of multi-racial births will continue to increase, and the constructs of "whiteness" and "blackness" and presumably Latino identity, will become more and more blurred.  To white racists, this apparent inevitability causes fear, and in my little opinion has always really been THE fear of white racists.  

Here is what I hoped to stimulate some discussion of, because I am deeply curious: Is the movement towards the middle, so to speak, and the diminuzation of racial identity as frightening to parts of the black community as it so obviously is to parts of the white community?  If everyone becomes multiracial, are "whites" really going to be the only ones bemoaning the fact?

Does that even make sense, or is it too far off the mark to merit answer?  If so, I'd happily accept thoughts on the questions I should have asked.

To aarongabriel: Miscegenation won't cure the light/dark ills because it seems to be a peculiarly human issue.  In every corner of the world, even with the intermingling of Italians and Moors, Portugal conquerors and Indians, South Africans and colonizers:  white or light equals right.  

I teach in a school where Mexican children call their darker classmates "Guatemalen", the way us black kids called our siblings, "African Booty Scratcher" as an insult.  

Ain't enough sex in the world is going to change that dynamic intraracially.  However, I've noticed a huge change inter-racially:  I'm a winter caramel to summer chocolate sister in Minnesota.  White men give me hella play regardless of my complexion.  I couldn't get a date for anything back in colorstruck Little Rock, but my, my, my how things have changed...

What can we do when we are our own worst enemies.  Growing up, I worked at an outdoor park.  I met a guy who was sooooooo happy that I was not "light skinned"

That same summer, (or the next summer) I went to college and made friends with a girl I thought was really cool.  But when November rolled around she asked what was happening to me.  I told her that my summer tan was fading,  and that was pretty much the last I saw of her.  

On the flipside, I was hired with a very deep tan.   I haven't always believed that light skin people got the better end of the deal in the wider society--and some of  my most memorable and appreciated  moments occurred when my skin was very brown.

that "willing concubines" statement is cold/

But, sadly, the wife of the white man was right when she says that the black community would be more accepting of her children than the white community.   I was tthinking so what, why should her children enjoy the privilege of being black more than the children of two AA parents?  Her mentality contributes to the pernicous problem of black self-hatred.

I am always amused when I see people ---who are in my mind incredibly rural and wouldn't associate with black people not a day in their life--- out in town with their black grandchildren in the grocery store, schools, etc.    It's a chicken coming home to roost kind of thing for me.  It makes me laugh inside.

In the lobby of the doc's office, a sixty-year-oldish (very rural) white woman was fascinated with my son. She told me that my son looked a lot like her grandson. The only difference being their hair.  (I had to laugh).

When biracial babies stand up and claim their white heritage they are bridging the divide and making white folks confront the insecurities about beauty and race that black people have been confronting since we've arrived on the continent.  

Barack Obama is doing it everyday.   Today the sun worked for him and the visuals were great. This is what the white commentators are saying.  I have to laugh again, because white commentators are not so receptive of Halle Berry.  

As for Soledad, I am angry with her exploitative journalism. I did not recognize myself in any of those pieces, and because Soledad is a woman with African heritage, I felt she could have contributed some of her own biracial story to the piece, and some of her own "willing concubine" perspectives to the story.

Or maybe it was edited out.  

Just today on the deck at lunchtime my new 22 year-old (just graduated from Bethune) co-worker said she wondered why I would sit on the deck everyday. She then continued to bemoan that she did not want to get any darker.

Of course I gasped but I eased my frustration and coaxed her ideas of where and why that came out of that beautiful mind of hers. She is such a intriguing person. So honest and yet so vulnerable, she told me her truth. Her story is no different than what you wrote earlier in Dyson's testimony. She said guys are not into dark-skinned girls. (And yes, she is still framing herself as a girl instead of a woman.)

I have stories about racial discrimination within my own family by people my own complexion: brown. So I don't have anything significant to say to one-up anyone's pain and disgust. I will add however that I always notice my lighter friends act like they did not notice they got more play even when they saw us darker friends struggling to gain the same attention.

I read one day the singer, Amerie, call out that simple behavior and denounce that men approach her because she is mixed and she does not like it in how they objectify her in contrast to others. I thought Amerie was honest, courageous, and radical for admitting that she benefits from the attention but also does not want it if it is rooted in the discrimination of prefering her because she is mixed with long hair, etc.

She has been the only celebrity besides Tyra that talks about the issues. I admire both women's conviction because Halle, who benefits from her looks in not looking African, never brings it up. She knows. Believe me --- Halle knows she benefits from being mixed. She has soaked up the benefits from being annoited the most beautiful Black Woman because she does not look THAT BLACK. (TOO BLACK).

As a Nigeria-American, I always felt like Black Americans look for excuses to explain we they fail -- they never take personal responsibility. Dyson's brother failed because he has weak mind, pure and simple. If light-skinned blacks truly had some advantage how do you explain all of the Africans attending Ivy League schools and becoming doctors and lawyers? I mean, on average African immigrants are darker than Black Americans. These excuses hold Black America back. You guys need to see how bad things are in Africa and you'll realize how trivial your gripes are. Grow up.

Back in May, Melissa Harris Lacewell wrote, "I am a little concerned that this generation of blackleadership seems to be exclusively Ivy-educated, light-skinned, men. It would be distressing to look back in 30 years and find that our generation was even more exclusive, elite and patriarchal than our elders.".

She is light but she called this before last night presentation of Dyson's testimony. I thank Dyson for being honest and using his sex to make the platform issue stick but she said it and tried to make it stick just months ago.

Is it that she is a woman that no one wanted to pay attention to her pronouncement of this position? She was trying to bring attention to the ongoing trend. Again, I honored her conviction to be light-skinned and still bring up the pathological trend Black America is supporting in not just skin-tone prejudice but in sexism compounded with a preference to follow a light-skinned male.

I think there's a double bind to being light skinned. It seems that some darker-skinned blacks (unconscious ones) will really try to bring you down to their nasty, self-hating level--and many whites don't like light-skinned blacks because it brings up a lot of under-the-carpet stuff for them. I used to be terrified of "street wise" dark-skinned sisters because they would bully and harass me. And I hated being around other light-skinned girls, because many times it becomes this stupid competition about who is lighter, has straighter hair, lighter eyes, etc. I'm in a different place now--I will not tolerate BS from anyone, no matter their color or class. As for the African poster who said we need to get over our color issues, please don't pretend that colorism (and rampant skin bleaching) doesn't exist on the continent (and that all the "brilliant" African students who come here are usually from families that benefited from colonialism). Some of the most colorstruck men I've met have been African, by the way. We ALL need to be real--and to resist the self-hatred that causes us to mistreat each other based on skin color (and to adopt oppressor/victim roles based on the color of our skin). I was raised by my white mother (very cruel) and her white husband and I broke ties once I was in my 20s. I know the black family is all about "family," but if that family is treating you bad, sometimes you need to let go and create a family of loving, healthy, conscious people. Just a thought.

"and that all the "brilliant" African students who come here are usually from families that benefited from colonialism"

Really, how would you know that, seriously? Do you have numbers or is that some delusion you have in your head that helps the world make sense to you, just a question?

The light vs. dark debate is a diversion. A responsible family will insist on educating all its children and steering them toward a productive life.

There were 8 people in my family: Mom and Dad, 3 brothers, two sisters and myself. Among the six children two could be considered light, while others ranged from dark to brown. We were all high school graduates and each had the chance to attend college, though two dropped out.

I know people have their own perceptions, but verily I say to you, the three girls of my family, including two so-called light-skinned ones, were the ones who never wavered and pursued higher education. So did one brother, but it is true that the darkest child had the roughest time, and continues to live on the margins of poverty. I love all my family, but I have to insist we started out with the same obstacles and disadvantages. Some of us stayed focused, while others strayed.

The color line is real, I'm not pretending otherwise. But my own family illustrates how personal decisions and actions will cause siblings' paths to diverge.

Oh, not another excuse!  As a high yellow fellow I have often heard that my skin color contributed to my (relative) successes.   Unfortunately, I feel, any advantages that I may have had were canceled by my lack of height.  As Roseanna Roseanna Danna said, "There's always something."  If you're not light or if you're too light - get over it.  

Well, if my disappointment with Black in America means that I am never satisfied, fine. I refuse to be "grateful" that yet another corporation has thrown me a bone, and I refuse to congratulate them on another job poorly done. The series is not without its merits, but I can't call it journalism. I am actually quite suspicious of its true motivations and what its writers/producers hope to accomplish. I wonder if CNN will follow up with other series on other races or ethnicities. Hell, I don't know what it's like to be White in America, but I won't hold my breath on that one. That said, I don't believe that there is a "typical" black experience--even if there are things that "most" blacks can identify with (because clearly when you don't identify with the "typical" then you aren't "really" black). I would've LOVED to see a piece debunking the myth of the black monolith, and I honestly believe THAT could've been done in two hours. Then again, it would've required the producers to acknowledge history, race as a social construct, the African diaspora, other peoples of African descent in America (from the Caribbean, Latin America and *gasp* Africa), non-Christians, LGBT people and variations in class. Maybe that would've humanized us too much. It's so much easier when we can be lumped together, apparently.

Now, let me date myself. Anybody else remember that on "The Jeffersons" Tom and Helen (the interracial couple who were friends/neighbors of George and Louise) actually had twins? They were bi-racial children at different ends of the color spectrum. Jenny appeared black and her brother, Allan, appeared white. Allan not only appeared white, but passed and went to live in Paris (of all places--I thought they loved us there). As ridiculous as this example may have seemed to some, I want you to consider a few real life examples like Rashida and Kidada Jones,  the "black white" fraternal twins (google brings up several, actually). Carmen Van Kerckhove said it well here when she wrote, "There’s nothing particularly miraculous about siblings who vary greatly in phenotype. It’s simply a matter of genetic variation. There are plenty of African-American families in which this kind of variation can be found." If you can extend that notion from individual families to envelop the whole community, it becomes even more apparent that not only is our intra-racial skin color discrimination arbitrary, but it's not even truly based on proximity. Genetics has its own logic, and has never cared about our social constructs.

My friend a blue eyed blonde married a very black skinned man from Jamacia and had two sons by him.  Her husband was an officer in the Navy and was hit by a car in Guam and died about four years after the youngest son was born.  The older son was very cafe' mocha with long nappy hair that turned orangy red in the sun.  I met him when he was 16 just turning into a man and becoming a world class pro surfer, he was very polite, and soft spoken with no ghetto accent.  His younger brother was about 11 and as white blonde blue eyed as his mother.  If you didn't know you would have thought they had two different fathers, though they both had very similar facial features.  A few year later I had the opportunity to meet them again and the younger one had turned into a trash talking ghetto mouth and braided his hair to get a little kink, his skin had turned a slightly darker shade than it was before or maybe he just had a tan as it was the summer.  The older boy was about 20 and had a sponsored world surf tour coming up and the younger son was going to high school and his probation officer.  His mother was hoping that he didn't end up going to prison when he got to be 18.

Being an observer to my girlfriends family, I noticed that the younger son was always trying to prove he was black by imitation of ganster rap artists.  He was about as "black" as Eminen.  The older son was into rap and rasta music but was still a mild mannered gentleman.  My friend had said that their father was always coming and going on tours of duty and had actually spent more time with the younger son before he passed.

With examples of successful blacks like Colin Powell and Condelessa Rice in government,  Bill Crosby and Eddie Murphy on TV and the majority of sport figures young people would be inspired by these folks instead of thug drug dealing gansters who promote anything for money.

Another friend of mine, who I have known since high school is half Mexican and half white.  Her mother was from Mexico and had a daughter already when she married a white guy of European decent and they had two daughters together.  When I met the oldest daughter, the mother called her Negro, because of her dark skin, the second daughter was called Blanca because of her white skin and my friend she called baby because her was the youngest.  This is how it is in Mexico, I know because I have lived there two different times, everybody gets a nickname.  If you're fat it's Gorda, meaning fat, Bruha (witch or ***) this is meant to be affectionate but it is really a classification.  

I was working as a make-up artist for a traveling glamour shots type photography a few years back, and one of the places I spent alot of time in was New Mexico.  I had 25 different shades of make-up set out on a table along with the eye shadow, lip colors and blushers.  Every single woman that walked into that room tried to decide which shade of face color I was going to use on them.  The end result was very similar on everyone; glamorous with big hair sold the most pictures.  Now the majority of the women of Spanish decent I used a color called pecan, and so were the majority of my clients of African decent.  If I grabbed the shade darker the Latinas would almost gasp and say they weren't that dark.  My answer was always the same, trust me I'm a professional and my job is to make you more beautiful, that's why you came?  My tanned women of European decent also looked at me funny when I grabbed the color called pecan.

I will always remember the day the three black girlfriends walked into the studio, one light skinned, one medium brown and one very dark skinned.  Well they were all pretty girls, but you could tell the ring leader was the light skinned girl, who you could also tell she thought she was the prettiest.  Immediately they started to decide which color they were.  They all came with their hair already done because the last time the company came through their small town the make up artist was white and couldn't do black hair, so they said.  The lighter skinned ones started to joke the dark girl that she was going to be using the color called chocolate, but she insisted that the color I would use on her would be the next shade lighter.  Without out her standing under the bright studio lights, I knew she would be the very darkest shade: blueberry.  The medium skinned girl was going to need chocolate and the light skinned girl was going to need latte.  After the make up was done, they all looked stunning and they wanted to know which shade I had used on them.  Well the darkest girl, refused to believe that she had on the darkest shade because she couldn't believe that she looked that good.  Actually with the right shade of makeup on, she, in my opinion was the prettiest and I think that the other girls noticed this also.  The lightest skinned girl was shocked that she was so white by the color I used.  The medium skinned girl called her "whitey".  So they asked me how I picked the right colors and I said it was the way they looked in the light and the color of their hands, both the back of the hand and the palms for the accent colors, also the shade of brown their eyes were.  I told them if they used the shades that were correct for their skin color that they could learn how to angle and contour everything else by experimenting on their features.

Everybody seemed to want to buy the makeup from me which was not for sale.  I told them it is really to waxy and greasy for regular wear and was made to be used under the bright film lights and after a few hours it would begin to look like hell unless it was touched up.  But still they kept insisting town after town that it was the makeup and not the makeup artist, regardless of race and ethnic heritage.  In all these small towns, every culture was represented, from Indians to Middle Eastern, Asians of all types, Native Americans, African Americans, and European Americans, and I'm not going to say just women, as there were some men (not gay) looking for a photo that enhanced their appearance, as well as cross dressers, whom I referred to in the feminine.  Again these were small towns where eveyone knows just about everyone, and one woman was shocked that this Latino guy was, for years dressing as a woman, but said that I did such a wonderful job because I never once said anything about him being a male.  

It's not the package that matters the most, it's what's inside the wrap and if there were eight bags of different blood types sitting on the shelf, I want the one that matches my blood not the color of my skin.  This is the correct way to look at things instead of getting caught up in light vs dark or black vs white.  More black folks need to stop saying that the MAN is holding them back.  A lack of an education is holding you back, talking ghetto and using slang is holding you down, using excuses that your great grandparents were slaves, so you have the mentality of an owned person with no freedom to make choices other than what people tell you to do, being a slave to drugs is making you weak.  

Immigrants of all cultures leave their homes and families behind to come to the USA because it is the land of opportunity, just visit other countries and see for yourself how you feel when you come back here.  I guarantee you will love it, more than when you left it.  Every child in the USA has the RIGHT to be educated until they are 18 years old, in other countries only if their parents can afford it.  If you want to be educated further but can't afford it then you have the right to use the public library system to check out books to better yourself or entertain yourself with music and movies.  Or use the city colleges to begin an education and work to get enough money to pay for a state college education, like I did.  Pursue your interests and goals and don't wallow in self misery and blame it on your parents.

One of my friends is the most ghetto trashin talking welfare taking woman you can meet, both her daughters never use slang or call each other N***R, she makes fun of them by calling them oreos because they speak correct and proper English and never gots to axe her sumpton.  These young women both were public school educated and one of them went to college.  The other one got pregnant at her high school prom by a white guy, so she went to the school of real life and got a good job to provide for her child.  She never went on public assistance because she said her mother told her that she was going to end up a poor N***R like her mother,  during pregnancy and she never wanted that to be her or her son's reality.

When I was going to college I rented an apartment in a hugh complex in Los Angeles with every ethnicity  you could think of and these two Middle Eastern Muslim women of different countries started to war amongst themsleves, breaking windows and throwing garbage on each others doorsteps and encouraging their children to do the same.  So the manager called the police after a couple of weeks and had them both arrested and kicked them out of the apartments.  One of the women asked him why he did that and he said, "I can't tell you apart, you both wear head scarfs and dress the same and have similar accents, but mostly because this is America, so go back to your homeland if you want to fight with each other.  Look at me and my wife."  He was white and his wife was black.

Another thing I learned while I was traveling throughout the world, is the French are very white oriented, the Germans are pro white, the white Dutch are very accepting of immigrants of all skin colors, the English are quite liberated racially, the Spainards and Italians are very light skinned enamoured, and the South Americans and Mexicans think you are richer and better is you are white or lighter skinned, in Hawaii it is best to be full Hawaiian, second best to be Hawaiiain of Japanese decent, and third best to be Hawaiian of Chinese decent, but it was the worst to be Haoule (white).  The funniest thing I heard was from my friends Mexican mother, who told me, to say she was Spanish was an insult to all Mexicans and like calling them wetbacks.  And when I was in New Mexico to call them Mexicans was to call them wetbacks or N***R, they were Spanish, regardless of their skin shade.

So the moral of my observation is to be criminal, is to be criminal regardless of your race as there are prisons in every country on the earth, and your choices are what got you there not your skin color or ethnicity.  I know people of all races and skin shades and there are good and bad people everywhere just as there are people I do associate with and people I won't associate with and that includes persons of my family who have treated me poorly, and being one of 8 children trust me on this one.

Anecdotally, this happened as well in a friend's mixed Latino family. He was the darker child, and his two siblings were almost white. They were both fast-tracked to college, while he, by far the smartest of the three, has had to work for every credit.

As for what we can do? Just keep mixing our genes, I guess. I have to say the advantages of multiracialism still far outweigh the drawbacks.

As a man, I realize that I'm not everyone's cup of tea.  But I’ve never had trouble meeting people.

So, I'm going to be honest with you ladies. Some guys have certain preferences but for the most part men love Beautiful women regardless of skin-tone.  There isn't any skin tone privilege when it comes to dating.   If you are attractive, men will want to date you.  If you are ugly, you aren't going to get as much attention.  Simple as that.

That may not hold true in all social arenas but, when it comes to dating in 2008, most men can careless about skin-tone.  

@werewolf

By the way, I agree that it is a lot harder in Africa but Nigeria has plenty of self-inflicted issues despite having an oil reserve.  I can't imagine what African-Americans would do if they found “Black gold” under Oakland, or Atlanta (with mineral rights).  There would be some drilling in America on that day....  Have you seen crude prices lately?

Werewolf,

As a proud black American of mixed-raced descent--and Ivy League educated, to boot--I've had the opportunity to meet people of all races, ethnicities, and persuasions (I've also come to realize that playing the color and privilege game is pretty empty--and ugly--at the end of the day). I find some, not all, Africans and Caribbeans incredibly forgetful when it comes to their own privilege and the reasons why their families were able to leave the homeland and attend the "best" schools this country has to offer. If Africans are so incredibly superior, why is the continent dying while the world looks away? You are probably young and secure in your arrogance and dismissal of "lazy black Americans," or else incredibly sheltered. If you had a heart--and soul--you'd do a little investigating into the reasons so many blacks here are not doing well. Yes, one must attempt to make one's life better--but there are real reasons why the black community is so shattered. Go howl at the moon. By the way, the crap economy is affecting ALL of us now. Our collective bootstraps are broken.

I love reading your blog, and at first glance, when I read the title on The Root homepage the first thing that crossed my mind was Oh my, not the dark skinned/light skinned discussion again.

But reading your comments, you make extremely valid points and reminded myself of many conversations I have had with friends and family in the past.

There is something truly wrong with black people since we can't seem to go beyond skin color.  But I will say that this is somewhat of a regional thing.  I grew up in Texas/Louisiana and moved to the DC area for college and have been here since graduation.  While growing up, no one cared about skin color because so many people are mixed with some of everything down South.  I have relatives that span from very dark, to being able to pass for white, but we all love each other and no one ever questions that.  With my friends back home, it's the same thing.  I have beautiful dark skinned girlfriends as well as light.  But for some reason, when I moved to DC that all changed.  It seemed as if black people are obsessed with color.  Some black men find favor only with black women who are, as my cousins call it, "light, bright, and close to white."  And I forgot to mention, with long hair.  When I commute into the city each day for work, as a lighter skinned black woman, I constantly see some looking at me with such hate.  I want to smile, but you know it's hard to pass one along to someone when they are staring as if you have the Bubonic Plague.  

Whatever the case, it's a problem within our community and it needs to stop.  This is something that we cannot blame on white people, though I understand there are roots from slavery that stem from the "House Negro."  We have inherited this mentality and need to grow beyond it.  What can black folks do to change this mentality?  Only we have the power to do so.

What people need to understand is that while we may have some color hierarchy within the black community, in the real world we face the same struggles to rise beyond the pettiness of racism, clacism, etc.  Light skinned people, regardless of your perceptions or ideas, do not have it easier.  I wish the perpetuation of that idea would cease.  

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Keith, I can't tell by your article if you are suprised that the dark/light dichotomy among black people exists, or that it STILL exists, after all of these hundreds of years of our being in America. I suspect it is the former, which surprises me. That is sort of like you writing, "Hey... did you ever notice that black people are very religious?"

What surprises and saddens me is that this issue STILL exists among us. I am 41, and while I must admit that my mother and aunt, my mom's only sister, never got along because one was dark, the other light, at least they both knew it was ignorant and shameful to dislike one another because of that reality. The funny thing is that each was convinced that the other was treated better in society because of their complexion.

I give up on black people -- scratch that -- on AMERICANS ever learning anything or improving when it comes to being decent human beings and nice to one another. Just like young white people still buying into white supremacy, I am dissapointed at youg black people still buying into the whole light/dark, good/bad hair nonsense.

And race mixing isn't going to help: look at Brazil. We in America have hundreds of years to go to catch up on the number of mixed-race folks in our society that Brazil has, yet in Brazil, their is still a racial hierarchy. And white is still at the top, and black at the bottom.

The only prejudice that I currently hold that I am PROUDLY CULTIVATING, is my preference for smart people over ignorant people. Regardless of race, class, color, age, or complexion.

I hate ignorant people. They should all die off or be killed.

dr spaceman couldn't have said it better.  This light skin/dark skin conversation has existed way too long.  Seems mankind will never get past it no matter how much cream is added to the coffee!  I agree, my true prejudice is aimed at ignorance, for the one pure truth is we're all just the human race.  But we will not survive to realize this.

Folks!  A brother is waking up very thrilled.  Thanks to everyone for letting loose in here and being honest. Now many of us agree that CNN's Black in America suffers from some loop holes, but I figure we can fill in the blanks with our own resources and experiences.

The light skinned privilege issue is a major crises in our communities and I just want us to come to some kind of head about it.  Or at least agree to challenge family and community when they point out someone's "good hair" or "bad hair", challenge folks when they say "he/she got pretty eyes" you know, when their eyes are hazel or blue, challenge folk when they say things like "he/she's ugly and no good" when the person is darker skinned. We have to be true warriors with this.  Several years ago, my uncle's wife [a darker skinned woman] pulled my two nieces into her arms and pointed out my younger nieces' longer, softer hair and said nothing to her sister [who's seven year old expression quickly went from happy to sad], SO I SAID, "yeh, they both have great hair and they're both beautiful and smart."  The room was silent for a moment. I was challenging some institutional crazy and folks didn't know how to process it.  

On the flip side, several years ago, one of my good friends in Cincinnati, a much darker skinned brother, was hanging with me. We stopped by my grand aunt's [a very fair skinned woman] and she seemed displeased to see him.  She was rude and wouldn't let us travel beyond her living room.  After I realized what was going on, we left. However, I called my mom and told her what happened and she handled it.  My aunt was 75. I didn't feel right confronting an elderly person, particularly when it was all covert.

I think if we begin challenging actions and terminology [in the moment] we can begin making progress.  We spend too much time avoiding challenges like this and accepting dismissive and damaging behavior as standard.  What do you think about that?

Q: Do parents favor lighter children over darker children?

A: umm, yeah....Obviously not all of them, and I don't even know if most do.  But this ain't news.

Q: Do blacks institutionally demonize our darker half and think nothing of it?

A: Again - WTF?  Of course we do.  And we know we do.  Is this really a surprise to anyone?  There have been to many internal (i.e. black) media discussions and too many of this have been the victim or beneficiary of this in some form or fashion.  We know this goes on...what's the real question?

Q: What should we do about this?

A: Stop!  Just stop!  Challenge yourself on why you think you like light-skinned Nancy over dark-skinned Susie!  Was Nancy really nicer?  Did Susie actually have an attitude?  Force yourself to examine your behaviors.  Nobody said its easy, in fact someone pointed out that most minority cultures have a color complex (Indians, Asians, etc.)  But that's the only way we're going to get past it if we just say enough is enough!  

I've always been a medium shade of black, pretty insulated from the extremes of colorism. My Grandmother is the darkest of her siblings and we always noticed that she had some issues with color but it was never an issue for me directly until i was about to go to college and started dating more seriously.

In a lot of ways i think light/dark issues affect women more (nowadays) because of the struggle to meet society's standards of beauty and the emphasis on appearance in many woman's lives.

 I get approached by brothas of all shades but I've noticed that only brown/dark skinned dudes make a comment about skin tone. I dated one guy while i was working at a summer camp which required me to br outside daily he hadn't seen me  in a little while so when came to visit me at work the first thing he said to me was "oh, you've been in the sun, don't do that you're so pretty withtyour natural color" needless to say that was the last time he heard from me. But since then I've heard "you're such a pretty brown skinned girl," or "I like cute brown sistas"  mainly from dudes that were darker than I am. My best friend is beautiful and she's dark skinned. when we go out only White men apporach her. like clockwork we can be in a room full of brothers and she and the one white man there will find each other. I used be annoyed  like "why doesn't she date black guys. That is until one night when we were out and a guy who was darkest guy in the room came up to her and said "I never talk to women this dark but you're cute." then he felt the ned to call her "darker then me" and comment about how rare she was because most women "their color" are ugly.

I was shocked!! beyond shocked and angry for my friend, she's usually a very